pouët.net

This.

Good. Your homework now is reading up on Nazi ideology (I mean - you're throwing it around here like you knew anything), comparing it to what you've said, and realizing in the process how utterly moronic anything you wrote here has been. Until then, bye.

To me it looks like testing > vaccination in regards to containing the spread of the virus, especially with viral load of delta variant not being affected by vaccination.

Unqualified blanket statements like this:

Are simply not true if you go by what high profile german health-care institutions like the Robert Koch Institute and the German Cancer Aid have to say (to name a few of the local ones). For example it's currently discouraged to get vaccinated during pregnancy(link german only), furthermore effectiveness of vaccination may be severely reduced in immunocompromised people, which I know for a fact we have in the scene. Also for people with autoimmune diseases there's an increased risk of triggering an adverse immune reaction, with every kind of vaccination. There's also more trivial things like if you'd started a vaccination series for another disease like TBEV you may be advised to not get a covid vaccination until that series is complete which takes between 3-12 months depending on the applied schema.


Even in healthy people administering a vaccine (or any other drug) comes with risks of adverse effects. Some of which are severe like anaphylactic shock, myocarditis, facial paresis or thrombosis (link german only). It's not irrational fear when a persons medical history makes them cautious about getting vaccinated. Assume you had an anaphylactic shock in the past when you got vaccinated for VZV, or you had a stroke of unknown origin, both cases where a doctor may advise against getting vaccinated.

All of the aforementioned things are scientific and medical consensus, not some 5g poison microchip bs. The previously linked source(Paul Ehrlich Institute) also quotes 30.986.128 people having completed covid vaccination by 30.06.2021, that's less than half of the german population, most of which will be people with increased health risks...

It's disappointing to see how some of the louder voices rooting for more acceptance and compassion in the past are the first ones to radically shut down and basically expel people from the scene for voicing concerns or even just asking questions. How about ya'll take a step back and reflect a bit on your tone and your actual qualification on the matter instead of telling people to fuck off right away? Seeing a few facebook and twitter ads promoting vaccination doesn't make you an expert, nor does it give you a medical degree. After all, a big part of the whole vaccination campaign is to reach a critical mass to actually protect the people who can not be vaccinated or to whom vaccination poses a higher risk, the people that you put under pressure and discriminate by requiring vaccination even though it may very well be the weakest of the safety measures considering what we learn about delta variant.

It may be legal to do so but it's still against what the Bundesjustizministerin repeatedly advises in the interview linked by havoc, which is to keep all options but eventually phase out free testing for the people that can be vaccinated.

I know of at least 5 people, some of which were deadline regulars, including me, who won't show because of this for various reasons. With how polarized some of you seem to be and the tone in this thread I wouldn't expect anyone else to raise their hand, but visitor counts will tell, so will infection counts if there's a single person carrying a virus variant.

As Krill already said, your party your rules, stay healthy everyone and consider getting tested regardless of your vaccination status.

Logistical constraints are a point, but...
... it's moot with this intention.

I'm fully vaccinated but I understand Gabbie's drift. I'm not on board with the Godwins etc (and I think Gabbie would make a better point if he'd try to keep them out). But I also find it very disturbing how easily folks accept a situation where people are essentially forced to put something inside their bodies or risk being fully excluded from society.

You only get one body. Some people think vaccinations are scary, for all kinds of good and bad reasons, all the way from "Bill Gates is going to mass murder us" to "It scares me to put something in my bloodstream that was developed so quickly". Even if you think that all of those reasons are bad, like I do, then it's many steps from "I think you're making the wrong call to not get the shot" to "I think you should be forced to get the shot". In a free society we accept all kinds of behavior that has negative externalities - alcohol/drug abuse, driving polluting cars, going to work with the flu, etc etc. Why is "I'm scared about the shot" different?

Note that I agree with the Deadline orgas that it's their choice to make. I think I'd have made a similar choice because, well, I'd feel extremely bad if my party caused someone serious health trouble (eg long covid) or death, even if knew that reasonably I couldn't be blamed. I think what Scamp did with UC was super cool and courageous, and we can't just demand that from everybody. Demoparty attendance is not a fundamental right, not in the same way that eg access to restaurants and shops should be in my opinion. I disagree with the way Gabbie comes at the Deadline, but I think I understand where it comes from.

There's a strong vibe in this thread (and many other places) that not getting vaccinated makes you a bad person, and I wanted to push back against that. It's a very slippery slope to tell other people what they have to do to their bodies.

at the Deadline *orgas

Sure, but in a free society there are plenty of things that society does not accept. Alcohol/drugs abuse is not accepted and for the most part only does damage to yourself, going to work with the flu is frowned upon, new emission standards are driving car pollution down and so on. Note that it's perfectly not legal or accepted to drive while under the influence, to shoot fireworks at people or run around swinging a sword in a crowded department store.

Those not getting vaccinated are bad people, and everyone (who doesn't have a proven medical reason why they shouldn't) should be forced to get the vaccine. The cases where one can't or shouldn't are, to quote the official medical guidance in my country, "exceedingly rare" (for an example pregnancy is not a risk factor). Unless a doctor specifically has advised against it for you, any hesitation is an irrational fear.

True, and the difficult decision is whether you wait and hope you won't catch the virus and if you get it, to risk that you'll die from getting it.

Those who don't want to test/vaccinate, can't expect though that they're entitled to block every effort by the others to move on, hold a party, play a concert, have a cooking-class or whatever.

But yeah, difficult topic that doesn't really belong here.

Well your official medical guidance differs from ours then, I linked the official source which says:

Which roughly translates to:

Indeed it doesn't really belong here, because the discussion is about only accepting vaccination (Deadline) vs. accepting either vaccination, or a negative test result, or a recovery, or any combination thereof (current local regulations mandated by law).

It does belong here, because this is the first party to only allow vaccinated guests but not tested ones without any legal requirement to do so.

Not only is alchohol widely accepted in society it's also responsible for most of the domestic abuse, murders, homelessness and so on. So maybe if you truly want a "safe" demoparty; ban the alcohol.



If we don't learn from our mistakes we are doomed to repeat them, the Nazi's didn't gas the Jews over night. It started with cleaning the factories and 'curing TB', only later this morphed into genocide. Already we are seeing the demonisation of unvaccinated people, just read this thread. And we have only just begun. If you are interested, read "The Origins of Totalitarianism" by Hannah Arendt.



Did you even think this through? Forced vaccination means that the government comes to your house, breaks down your door and injects you with God knows what. If that's not Facism I don't know what is.

3 * Thanks LJ!

What do you tell the few that have permanent or / and severe to deadly adverse effects? "That was a risk we the society were willing to take" ... ? wtf

Congrats noby, you successfully screwed this debate for everyone who was vaguely on your side.

You know what? Someone who willingly and knowingly participated in a rally organized by well known German neo-nazi groups really shouldn't try to lecture anyone on the topic of origins of totalitarism.

Just saying.

everyone (who doesn't have a proven medical reason why they shouldn't)

Can't you people read?

Oh yeah right, adverse effects are only experienced by people with proven medical reasons to have them. Totally forgot about this, maybe because it's absolute nonsense.

Where is your medical degree then?

I am really shocked that this thread has turned from "a demoparty trying to limit risks during a pandemic" to "vaccination = jews during nazi Germany".

Once again - Gabbie: Fuck you, you disgusting piece of shit. No, you being an idiot does not make your comparable to what happened to jewish people. It just makes you a fucking idiot without any shame.

(By the way: In Germany, we have a vaccination mandate since 1807, renewed in eastern and western Germany multiple times whenever there had been a pandemic, and found legal by Germany's constituanal court in 1959. This mandate was last renewed 2001, long before Covid-19. If any of this is a conspiracy, it's a pretty old one.)

Not interested in any kind of debate with anyone here tbh. There's only one right call and the Deadline organizers already rightfully preempted to make it.

Glad I could help.

Have you ever read the package insert of like any drug ever sold? There's no way to predict most adverse effects of drugs on a per-person level, it's all just statistics. Not that it matters but to answer your question, I actually worked with the european database for adverse drug reactions (www.adrreports.eu) and read a ton of scientific studies and correspondence on the topic for the past two years, I may not have a medical degree but I am certainly a lot more informed than you appear to be, I also have this thing called valid arguments and sources to back me up, what do you have?

if non-vaccinated people are actually offended by the party's requirement that only vaccinated can get it, maybe they should boycott the party by not going ther... oh, wait.