onScene 2021 - Easter Weekend - April 2-5 - Bingen am Rhein, Germany
category: parties [glöplog]
Happy New Year!
It's 2021, and Revision is cancelled, and looked like we are expected to spend another Easter weekend at home.
It's clear that a packed on-site event like Revision on its full scale wasn't doable by April, so no hard feelings there.
However, we believe that with a lower number of visitors combined with an over-sized party hall, the impossible can be made reality: A safe indoor demo party during a pandemic. Depending on the status of the pandemic, it may not work out in the end, but we think it's worth trying.
You are invited to onScene 2021, an on-site real-life demoparty with real human flesh, happening Easter Weekend (April 2-5) in Bingen am Rhein, Germany.
Check out:
https://onscene.party
As we need to find out which of the available locations to book, we need your (non-binding) registrations.
So if you believe you would be making it (should the pandemic allow), please register now at
https://onscene.party/register.html
Fingers crossed we are going to meet again Easter 2021.
Kisses,
scamp & The onScene Organizer Team
It's 2021, and Revision is cancelled, and looked like we are expected to spend another Easter weekend at home.
It's clear that a packed on-site event like Revision on its full scale wasn't doable by April, so no hard feelings there.
However, we believe that with a lower number of visitors combined with an over-sized party hall, the impossible can be made reality: A safe indoor demo party during a pandemic. Depending on the status of the pandemic, it may not work out in the end, but we think it's worth trying.
You are invited to onScene 2021, an on-site real-life demoparty with real human flesh, happening Easter Weekend (April 2-5) in Bingen am Rhein, Germany.
Check out:
https://onscene.party
As we need to find out which of the available locations to book, we need your (non-binding) registrations.
So if you believe you would be making it (should the pandemic allow), please register now at
https://onscene.party/register.html
Fingers crossed we are going to meet again Easter 2021.
Kisses,
scamp & The onScene Organizer Team
Count me in. \o/ Registered already. :D
I have fixed various bugs the website had, including missing links to the compo pages etc.
I'd also like to say something about the rather unexpected shit storm that has come up:
I knew that there were negative emotions about "they are doing a party on holy easter weekend". Being someone who has done an easter party for 10 years I can fully understand that, and I clearly underestimated the negative emotional response. I am sorry for that.
I had hoped that the emotional invitation has made it clear: We do not to intend to replace Revision, we do not intend to compete with Revision Online either. We do not want to take anything from anyone.
We want to give. We want to give those sceners who think that for them personally the risk assessment for meeting in person is acceptable to do so. This might be because people mostly isolate before and after the event anyway due to a habit of not having much social contacts, just as an example.
We are aware that there is no absolute security. But again: I have been doing this for a while, and with Underground Conference last year have proven an event like this can be done safely.
And again, I do understand that some people are very attached to "Easter weekend is owned by Revision". But as someone who had a very hard emotional time to see Breakpoint go I can say: Easter Weekend is not owned by any party. It's owned by the scene.
I'd also like to say something about the rather unexpected shit storm that has come up:
I knew that there were negative emotions about "they are doing a party on holy easter weekend". Being someone who has done an easter party for 10 years I can fully understand that, and I clearly underestimated the negative emotional response. I am sorry for that.
I had hoped that the emotional invitation has made it clear: We do not to intend to replace Revision, we do not intend to compete with Revision Online either. We do not want to take anything from anyone.
We want to give. We want to give those sceners who think that for them personally the risk assessment for meeting in person is acceptable to do so. This might be because people mostly isolate before and after the event anyway due to a habit of not having much social contacts, just as an example.
We are aware that there is no absolute security. But again: I have been doing this for a while, and with Underground Conference last year have proven an event like this can be done safely.
And again, I do understand that some people are very attached to "Easter weekend is owned by Revision". But as someone who had a very hard emotional time to see Breakpoint go I can say: Easter Weekend is not owned by any party. It's owned by the scene.
bravo, scamp!
the bigger you make the party the higher the chances are you creating a superspreading event, you know that right?
the bigger you make the party the higher the chances are you creating a superspreading event, you know that right?
No, that was news to me. Thank you for letting me know.
Please also call my superspreader supermarket, the superspreader church, the superspreader kindergarden, the superspreader UPS. Please also call the roughly 16 Million office workers in Germany. They need to know about those news!
Seriously, though: Yes, the bigger the party becomes, the harder it gets to enforce the safety rules. Which is why "big" is not a goal. Which is written on the website. Which you surely have read. As well as the security concept, which is more detailed than in any supermarket, church, kindergarden, UPS... oh well, you get it, I guess. If you want to. Do you?
Please also call my superspreader supermarket, the superspreader church, the superspreader kindergarden, the superspreader UPS. Please also call the roughly 16 Million office workers in Germany. They need to know about those news!
Seriously, though: Yes, the bigger the party becomes, the harder it gets to enforce the safety rules. Which is why "big" is not a goal. Which is written on the website. Which you surely have read. As well as the security concept, which is more detailed than in any supermarket, church, kindergarden, UPS... oh well, you get it, I guess. If you want to. Do you?
Right now getting a Covid-19 test in Germany involves calling phone numbers, getting rejected an appointment, and then driving 150km to get one at a private provider for 150 Euros.
Back in July 2020, when we did Underground Conference we've already set standards on how to do an outdoor event safely that nobody has met so far. And now we are doing it for an in-door event.
Yes, it is hard, but it's possible.
Will we reach perfection? No. Can we reach a higher standard than pretty much ANYTHING where we right now are forced to meet random people? Yes, that's certainly possible.
And I am not saying this out of ego bullshit. I wish the schools in our city would have standards even remotely close. They still don't even have ventilation systems, 12 months into the pandemic, not to even speak about air washers which have proven to be effective.
I understand that if your standard is "I am not leaving the house at all, don't invite anyone in, don't have contact with any people who have contact with other people, and everything I have delivered to my door I'm getting disinfected" - then this standard can not be met by a demoparty - no matter if there is a pandemic or not, for that matter.
As someone interested in maths you probably are well able to do a risk calculation (and correct me if I am making a calculation mistake here). If we assume a 50-to-100k daily incidence rate by the time of the event - which would be my threshold for not cancelling it - with 4 days and 100 visitors we can expect 0,002 persons to show up infected. We have a mandatory Covid-19 test before you are allowed to enter. But well, there is a 2-3 day span in which you could already carry the virus but the test not detecting it. Let's give that a 10% chance. This means we can expect 0,0002 infected persons to enter the party hall. Due to the ventilation concept aerosols are not an issue. This means that those 0,0002 infected persons now would have to spread the virus through direct contact - not wearing a mask, not getting kicked out for not wearing a mask.
Please explain to me how on earth this could become a super-spreader event, just purely from a mathematical stand point. I just think this is statistically something remotely of a realistic danger.
Well, unless we are invaded by the Christians from then next door church, which will be sitting there singing without masks over Easter weekend, of course.
Back in July 2020, when we did Underground Conference we've already set standards on how to do an outdoor event safely that nobody has met so far. And now we are doing it for an in-door event.
Yes, it is hard, but it's possible.
Will we reach perfection? No. Can we reach a higher standard than pretty much ANYTHING where we right now are forced to meet random people? Yes, that's certainly possible.
And I am not saying this out of ego bullshit. I wish the schools in our city would have standards even remotely close. They still don't even have ventilation systems, 12 months into the pandemic, not to even speak about air washers which have proven to be effective.
I understand that if your standard is "I am not leaving the house at all, don't invite anyone in, don't have contact with any people who have contact with other people, and everything I have delivered to my door I'm getting disinfected" - then this standard can not be met by a demoparty - no matter if there is a pandemic or not, for that matter.
As someone interested in maths you probably are well able to do a risk calculation (and correct me if I am making a calculation mistake here). If we assume a 50-to-100k daily incidence rate by the time of the event - which would be my threshold for not cancelling it - with 4 days and 100 visitors we can expect 0,002 persons to show up infected. We have a mandatory Covid-19 test before you are allowed to enter. But well, there is a 2-3 day span in which you could already carry the virus but the test not detecting it. Let's give that a 10% chance. This means we can expect 0,0002 infected persons to enter the party hall. Due to the ventilation concept aerosols are not an issue. This means that those 0,0002 infected persons now would have to spread the virus through direct contact - not wearing a mask, not getting kicked out for not wearing a mask.
Please explain to me how on earth this could become a super-spreader event, just purely from a mathematical stand point. I just think this is statistically something remotely of a realistic danger.
Well, unless we are invaded by the Christians from then next door church, which will be sitting there singing without masks over Easter weekend, of course.
scamp, i believe that you, in all your actions(even the more questionable ones), always had your heart in the right place.
I implore you to look inside yourself and ask:
"how much of the uc not getting people infected was your concapt and preperation efforts and how much was just pure luck?"
"am I prepared to live with the guilt if something serious(up to death) happens?"
"am I willing to die on this hill(literally)?"
I implore you to look inside yourself and ask:
"how much of the uc not getting people infected was your concapt and preperation efforts and how much was just pure luck?"
"am I prepared to live with the guilt if something serious(up to death) happens?"
"am I willing to die on this hill(literally)?"
Everything is luck. It depends on what the chances are. Life is risk management.
The risk of someone getting hurt during the offroad live shader coding competition was far greater than the risk of someone catching the virus. I would feel bad if someone would get hurt or die, no matter if that's due to getting run over by an offroad truck, or drowning in the lake, or getting an infection from one of the UC8 bastard horseflies.
(And from the list above, the horse flies statistically was the biggest danger of all).
Life is risk management. As an organizer it is my job not to put up any unreasonable risks, especially not unexpected risks. This for example involves securing overhead equipment so it does not fall onto someone, killing that person - which would be a risk a visitors could not have seen coming.
Covid-19 is the single biggest risk EVERY reasonable person has on its mind. Realistically, many people have it so much on their mind that they forget about other risks. I know this sounds harsh, but I think it's more likely that we will lose a scener from suicide out of isolation depression than from Covid-19 if we don't enable those who are starving for that social contact to have it.
It's written all over the website, but I'll say it again: There is absolutely no guarantee that there will be onScene happening in April. Nobody in their right mind would do such a party TODAY. Just as we had cancelled Under Deconstruction in December.
Depending on how much people who are not under our control fuck up managing the pandemic we might be in a situation in April where by non-hysteric but realistic risk management standards it would be OK to do the event.
(The biggest risk for many probably would be the flight, as unlike onScene that will neither have air ventilation, nor a strict mask mandate, nor Covid-19 tests, nor social distancing.)
Me asking you to validate my maths btw was a serious request. I'd rather be challenged on that level, than on an emotional one, which is nothing to base event planning on.
The risk of someone getting hurt during the offroad live shader coding competition was far greater than the risk of someone catching the virus. I would feel bad if someone would get hurt or die, no matter if that's due to getting run over by an offroad truck, or drowning in the lake, or getting an infection from one of the UC8 bastard horseflies.
(And from the list above, the horse flies statistically was the biggest danger of all).
Life is risk management. As an organizer it is my job not to put up any unreasonable risks, especially not unexpected risks. This for example involves securing overhead equipment so it does not fall onto someone, killing that person - which would be a risk a visitors could not have seen coming.
Covid-19 is the single biggest risk EVERY reasonable person has on its mind. Realistically, many people have it so much on their mind that they forget about other risks. I know this sounds harsh, but I think it's more likely that we will lose a scener from suicide out of isolation depression than from Covid-19 if we don't enable those who are starving for that social contact to have it.
It's written all over the website, but I'll say it again: There is absolutely no guarantee that there will be onScene happening in April. Nobody in their right mind would do such a party TODAY. Just as we had cancelled Under Deconstruction in December.
Depending on how much people who are not under our control fuck up managing the pandemic we might be in a situation in April where by non-hysteric but realistic risk management standards it would be OK to do the event.
(The biggest risk for many probably would be the flight, as unlike onScene that will neither have air ventilation, nor a strict mask mandate, nor Covid-19 tests, nor social distancing.)
Me asking you to validate my maths btw was a serious request. I'd rather be challenged on that level, than on an emotional one, which is nothing to base event planning on.
ok, lets check the math:
https://www.microcovid.org/https://www.microcovid.org/?distance=normal&duration=5760&interaction=oneTime&personCount=100&riskProfile=average&setting=indoor&theirMask=filtered&topLocation=US_06&voice=loud&yourMask=basic
not looking good :(
what strikes me as additional riskfactors:
- the low test availability in germany(how recent will the tests be sceners provide on entry?)
- will healthcare providers from non-german sceners have problems getting care in germany?
- poor mask discipline at uc8
- pre exsisting conditions( how many sceners are d3 defficient? how many sceners are in a risk group? etc)
- the fact that you think that your "back of the envelope"-calculation is holding any water against models done by healthcare professionals, statisticans, etc (hybris much?)
- Formula1 with a super concept and hundereds of millions of budget thousandss of tests, quarantine rules that kept ppl in hotels on arrival, etc did not manage an infection free season, what makes you think you can?
https://www.microcovid.org/https://www.microcovid.org/?distance=normal&duration=5760&interaction=oneTime&personCount=100&riskProfile=average&setting=indoor&theirMask=filtered&topLocation=US_06&voice=loud&yourMask=basic
not looking good :(
what strikes me as additional riskfactors:
- the low test availability in germany(how recent will the tests be sceners provide on entry?)
- will healthcare providers from non-german sceners have problems getting care in germany?
- poor mask discipline at uc8
- pre exsisting conditions( how many sceners are d3 defficient? how many sceners are in a risk group? etc)
- the fact that you think that your "back of the envelope"-calculation is holding any water against models done by healthcare professionals, statisticans, etc (hybris much?)
- Formula1 with a super concept and hundereds of millions of budget thousandss of tests, quarantine rules that kept ppl in hotels on arrival, etc did not manage an infection free season, what makes you think you can?
ok, i played by your rules and did the math, lets do mine(logic) now:
and yet the onScene page says people should bring a (presumably recent?) negative test.
don't you see how those two things don't fit together?
otoh: I am _sure_ every scener has another 150 euros to spend, access to a car, gas money and time.
and if not maybe they can carpool on the way to their test ... OH WAIT!
again, by your own words:
so people get a test, get infected on the way to the party(pane/train?/carpool?), show you their negative test from 5 days ago and go party for 4 days.
is that seriously your plan?
dud, we are not too stupid to use http://www.slengpung.com/v3_5/parties.php?id=726
there is not a SINGLE IMAGE of someone wearing a mask. so, nice "standart".
scamp, again: i think your heart is in the right place, but maybe it's time to use your head.
Quote:
Right now getting a Covid-19 test in Germany involves calling phone numbers, getting rejected an appointment, and then driving 150km to get one at a private provider for 150 Euros.
and yet the onScene page says people should bring a (presumably recent?) negative test.
don't you see how those two things don't fit together?
otoh: I am _sure_ every scener has another 150 euros to spend, access to a car, gas money and time.
and if not maybe they can carpool on the way to their test ... OH WAIT!
again, by your own words:
Quote:
(The biggest risk for many probably would be the flight, as unlike onScene that will neither have air ventilation, nor a strict mask mandate, nor Covid-19 tests, nor social distancing.)
so people get a test, get infected on the way to the party(pane/train?/carpool?), show you their negative test from 5 days ago and go party for 4 days.
is that seriously your plan?
Quote:
Back in July 2020, when we did Underground Conference we've already set standards on how to do an outdoor event safely that nobody has met so far.
dud, we are not too stupid to use http://www.slengpung.com/v3_5/parties.php?id=726
there is not a SINGLE IMAGE of someone wearing a mask. so, nice "standart".
scamp, again: i think your heart is in the right place, but maybe it's time to use your head.
Most infections (>50%) occurred inside care homes and hospitals. That hasn't changed much throughout the year. By easter (as Corona as a respiratory virus has been and will be again seasonal) the number of new infections will go down to a minimum.
Your calculation website is based on models that have NOT been validated, in fact these were very poorly reflecting the actual situation. Most of the data goes back to the early months of 2020, the oldest referred publication is from July 2020. "best research available"? Talk about hybris.
A central study this "calculator" is based on examined the health care sector with *direct* contact. That is not comparable to the situation for the demoparty.
There is no scientific evidence that singing or even speaking is causing superspreading. In fact, of all those alleged spreading events, there were additional situations where the spreading may have happened (and this includes the choir settings). Also, there is more and more evidence that asymptomatic people are not driving the pandemic, thus are hardly infectious (and seriously, why should they, they usually don't have high virus loads and are unlikely to cough them out). If you want to do science (and I do!), do it right please.
But yes, sceners can do something to contain the pandemic by keeping theirselves healthy and this includes mental health and not FUD driven TINA-politics. And of course, supplementation of vitamin D3. There have been MANY peer-reviewed studies in the last >20 years that suggest that there is a high correlation to catching *any* infectious disease with low D3 level (and that would fit the observations between obesity, age, skin color, hemisphere/season ("risk group") and Covid-19 cases).
I could go on but I have the feeling this is not going to be about finding out the facts and truth...
Your calculation website is based on models that have NOT been validated, in fact these were very poorly reflecting the actual situation. Most of the data goes back to the early months of 2020, the oldest referred publication is from July 2020. "best research available"? Talk about hybris.
A central study this "calculator" is based on examined the health care sector with *direct* contact. That is not comparable to the situation for the demoparty.
There is no scientific evidence that singing or even speaking is causing superspreading. In fact, of all those alleged spreading events, there were additional situations where the spreading may have happened (and this includes the choir settings). Also, there is more and more evidence that asymptomatic people are not driving the pandemic, thus are hardly infectious (and seriously, why should they, they usually don't have high virus loads and are unlikely to cough them out). If you want to do science (and I do!), do it right please.
But yes, sceners can do something to contain the pandemic by keeping theirselves healthy and this includes mental health and not FUD driven TINA-politics. And of course, supplementation of vitamin D3. There have been MANY peer-reviewed studies in the last >20 years that suggest that there is a high correlation to catching *any* infectious disease with low D3 level (and that would fit the observations between obesity, age, skin color, hemisphere/season ("risk group") and Covid-19 cases).
I could go on but I have the feeling this is not going to be about finding out the facts and truth...
platon42: don't forget to drink disinfectant and to swallow the sun for enough light!
Quote:
Most infections (>50%) occurred inside care homes and hospitals.
[ citation needed ]
Quote:
There is no scientific evidence that singing or even speaking is causing superspreading.
i am very sorry but googeling this phrase reveals the exact opposite of what you clam:
aerosol trasmision is (unfortunately) a thing.
i'd rather it wasn't but unfortunately it is. :(
i think it's awesome that you are trying to have a proper party.
Quote:
platon42: don't forget to drink disinfectant and to swallow the sun for enough light!
And there we go again... that comment of yours said more about yourself than about me. "What made you say that?"
Quote:
getting a Covid-19 test in Germany involves [...] driving 150km to get one at a private provider for 150 Euros.
In my area a rapid test is avaiable for 40 Euros.
Check here: https://15minutentest.de
platon42: sorry if I offended you, but your rant just made me eye-roll. If you want to do science (and I do!), do it right please.
(e.g. demanding evidence-based science for a phenomenon that's around for pretty much 1 year now, have you ever done research yourself and submitted a paper? that whole process usually already takes a year with most peer-reviewed journals, especially in the fields of medicine/infectious diseases :P)
Quote:
Quote:Most infections (>50%) occurred inside care homes and hospitals.
[ citation needed ]
Quote:There is no scientific evidence that singing or even speaking is causing superspreading.
i am very sorry but googeling this phrase reveals the exact opposite of what you clam:
aerosol trasmision is (unfortunately) a thing.
i'd rather it wasn't but unfortunately it is. :(
I will need some time to find the requested information -- I don't keep a history of all the stuff I have read within the last year.
I'm not denying aerosol transmission. I'm just saying that most of studies used computer models which is not the same as finding evidence for transmission between real-life people and real-life infectious virus particles.
Quote:
(e.g. demanding evidence-based science for a phenomenon that's around for pretty much 1 year now, have you ever done research yourself and submitted a paper? that whole process usually already takes a year with most peer-reviewed journals, especially in the fields of medicine/infectious diseases :P)
In fact, yes, I have submitted papers and my master thesis was about "Distributed data structures for efficient molecular sequence analysis" (for DNA/RNA array probe chips) in biological information science. Not everyone should be assumed to be unable to think in basic scientific and logical ways.
they didn't write an academic paper about it and it is anecdotal, but two elderly homes in a town near my birth town had serious COVID outbreaks just a week after Easter. They (the media mostly) traced it back to several members of one particular christian choir that sang in those homes. on the bright side, as all the weak there died that month and since then that town is doing really well in COVID statistics! Just to demonstrate these hard fact statistics are still contextual.
What nosfe said.
What T$ said.
Also
Also
Quote:
I like that. Now everyone might or might not join this physical event or stay at home. At least there are more options now, which should make everyone happy right?We do not to intend to replace Revision, we do not intend to compete with Revision Online either. We do not want to take anything from anyone.
We want to give.
abductee: It was in the invitation, both explained by MD Pelvis AND written in big letters on the blimp. And it's pretty much everywhere on the website:
We'll have medical personnel on-site. Everybody will have to take a free Covid-19 test before entering the party. And there will be additional optional daily tests on the next days.
The matter of shitty test availability is solved, that was the FIRST thing I solved before planning the event.
Which brings me to the core point: I am very open-minded and WANT critical thinking in regards of my security concept. But can you PLEASE first read it, and THEN criticize? I would feel more valued if that would be done.
We'll have medical personnel on-site. Everybody will have to take a free Covid-19 test before entering the party. And there will be additional optional daily tests on the next days.
The matter of shitty test availability is solved, that was the FIRST thing I solved before planning the event.
Which brings me to the core point: I am very open-minded and WANT critical thinking in regards of my security concept. But can you PLEASE first read it, and THEN criticize? I would feel more valued if that would be done.
Really, on-site medical personel, test on entry (and subsequent ones)? Wouldn't it be easier and safer to wait until it all resolves? (if it doesn't, going to a demoscene party will be the least of anyone's worries...)
Don't get me wrong, we're all adults capable of making our own decisions within the limits of law.
Don't get me wrong, we're all adults capable of making our own decisions within the limits of law.
