pouët.net

There were more Atari prods than Amiga in 2019.

oh shoot. well, then ban them too!

But no-one can define what is real demoscene, and no-one can pretend he knows better than others. Demoscene has no boundaries, it's constantly moving metaballs, hence the success of that FX.

I've seen it once on the bigscreen and I didn't feel the urge to see it again anytime soon. Not because of the tech, but because I found it kitschy. So being an anim player wasn't really balanced out by something I would've come back for.

Your opinion has been noted.

not an opinion i would come back for!

- most demos aren't interactive. they're animations, rendered in realtime
- we already have game and wild compos for interactive stuff
- we already have compos with size restrictions
- a category for demos without a size limit makes sense, because fancy assets and data driven stuff is cool too
- lol wtf make demos instead of complaining
- what are birds?

kb, don't you dare touch those SRT matrices! especially not with any data coming from the music!

kb, that made me laugh :D

... then we can as well pack in and go home. And get a haircut :)

bifat: You pack in and go home, we others continue making enjoying demos and don't try to impose some completely arbitrary and idiotically senseless restrictions on things. Deal?

kb: What? Don't act like an asshole, please

Ok, let's elaborate:

Running a bunch of vertices through a bunch of sine and perhaps a division table is in no way an even slightly more awesome feat than streaming and unpacking those same vertices from disk, especially when the other 90% of the code like triangle drawing, music, whatever raster manipulation you need for your screen mode, etc. is the FUCKING SAME.

Yet, you say one is "real", one is "fake". May I ask - who is acting like an asshole here?

JCO is absolutely right. EVERY* demo is an animation. Some constant data is run through some constant code yielding a constant result on screen. So yes, any distinction between "real" and "fake", especially bc it's not about just telling the OS to play a h.264 file but about a demo on freaking oldschool platform, is completely arbitrary. And senseless.

Fine, you didn't enjoy Eon. Nothing wrong about that. But that's only you. That's your problem (whyever it is.. it surely seems like one), not anyone else's.


* unless random or interactive and stuff

kb: You are totally right. As arbitrary as the distinction between realtime and animation, as arbitrary the rules that a party imposes. Suggesting and discussing new compos with new rules for the demoscene to adapt and advance is just fine. Problem, what problem? :)

well, for every meter your paper aircraft flies from the main stage into the hall you can vote for 1 prod

let's ban all the rules!

I've stayed away from my post, knowing that the Pouet board is quite different from chats with my active Demoscene friends, who are interested in tech and compare themselves to peers.

I've suggested one way to enjoy releases and encourage creativity without sacrificing the only thing that makes the Demoscene special.

Without it, it's unclear why anyone would be attracted to this scene in particular; what would be the point of even converting a creative, talented rendered CG short into a release?

My thought is that for performance-limited platforms, that thing, the point, is appreciating the achievement.

A few though, rather than competing or creating new effects, present animation as effect. It's quicker, easier, and most will have no clue that it's not an achievement but is designed to bypass the limits to look like a super-achievement. Since authors know their datalump, voluntary submission lets them achieve and dazzle, or bypass and dazzle, letting sceners appreciate both.



I fear everyone who discovers the Demoscene will look at what we say we appreciate - creativity, achievements, and tech - then at the stuff we appreciate the most, and quickly conclude that we just pretend we do, and go for the creativity part because the Demoscene offers nothing special.

This is from an objective point of view. I think the Demoscene is special, so I'm open to more suggestions that will convince ourselves and new talent of its Eigenart.

Your point of view if FAR from objective, and you know it.

I pissed my pants.

I wonder if the main "issue" of the initial topic is a lack of transparency to those who simply don't know anything about a specific platform, technical limitations and whatnot and who assume something is hardcoded and in fact it is not. this is some philosophical thing i guess because a rocking prod still rocks when not completely hardcoded (because everything needs work and dedication) but maybe some folks might vote for a less good looking prod where they know that it was all hardcoded. i don't know.



Well an ugly looking proof of concept might rock the socks of some who love the tech but what is wrong with going for the creativity part in judging a prod? Why not just doing the stuff one wants to do without caring about what potential new faces might think. really, who cares? feels like there is a problem created. well and that is creative! ;)

you just appreciate the achievement because you're a coder and an extremely narrowminded person. I, for one, couldn't give a flying fuck about technical achievements like there's +1 sprite record in yet another boring same old sprite effect on some old fart computer. In fact, 99,99% of the "everyone who discovers the Demoscene" probably won't give a flying fuck about any old computer from the past. simply because they don't care about an Amiga and secondly because they have no idea whether n+1 sprites is actually mindblowing or not. And on the modern day computers, the whole 'being technically advanced'-ship has sailed long ago as (game) companies actually innovate the shit out of computer graphics with large groups of developers, who get paid to do that full-time, etc.

@Bruno Valero

100% with you. If my english were better, I've expressed it in the same way instead of quoting kb.

The problem with the "technical achievement" stuff - it's boring to death. The +1 sprite thing nails it down. I think, many of the old register pokers are still doing the same since 1699. And then came TBL with Eon (and others with nice ideas) ... and those making always the same +1 were upset. The most annoying part, and this part comes ALWAYS: for 30 seconds of boring effect time, there are at least two or three minutes explaining how their dick is longer than the dick of someone other with -1 sprite.

One of the reasons, I didn't have made anything (presentable to the public) since 2003. It would be the same but with +1 polygon - I'm lost at the design/idea front. Maybe some are proud about yet another rotozoom with +1 scanlines. I prefer couchsurfing at Revision instead of repeating myself at higher resolution.

And now I demand some Satori eyepoking cancer to get epilepsy ;-)

P.S. If you are not Metalvotze, your dick is tiny anyways. Regardless of sprite count.

The irony is that the kind of productions that you are rooting for (with I dunno, rasterbars and technical records and cycle-exact timings to create a wobbly thing on the screen that's a bit wobblier and bigger than the previous wobbly thing) mean absolutely nothing to anyone who is not a certain type of a coder, while you can show Eon (for instance) to pretty much any random person with rudimentary understanding of computers and once they heard it's done on an old Amiga, they go WOW!

Noted. That would be a nice point for a distinction.
Thanks for the suggestion.