pouët.net

Of course it doesn't. It gives you the opportunity to gain distance for a moment, rather than typing yourself into a frenzy and probably even losing an entire day winding yourself up about this issue when you could have invested all this energy into something better IRL. That's my point.
Call it "walking/sleeping it over" -- one of those age old house remedies. You're always free to come back and address the issue (whatever it may be) again.

The early 2000s is also 19 years ago and people have grown older, got more life experience, changed perspective on things, might regret how they behaved (I sure as fuck am tbh).

d0DgE, my 2 cents: while walking/sleeping it over works for people (like me) in cases like this, always be aware that it may not work for some other people, or better yet, the situation worsens for them internally as they are spinning it downwards. for them, relaying it out and being met with reactions (either supportive or dismissive - but a reaction nonetheless) makes up for the louder but less significant damage.
i might be wrong here but that is how i see it.

can't speak for other places but pre-2000 scene here in HU was pretty much in line with the average teenager mindset :D i somewhat miss it but let's just say i'm glad it's over.

Okkie: Which more or less implies that the situation is even better now than it was all those years ago. Isn't it? Demoparties have become stupendously civilized and relaxed. I can't for the life of me see where all this fuzz is coming from.

True. That's why I always attached the disclaimer that it works for me and I recommend it. We're dealing with adult people here, aren't we?
If some need professional/medical advise to deal with such issues, there are far better places to bring those matters than ... le intarwebz

speaking of my own experience: just because you deal with biological adults, doesn't mean some of them may not have weaknesses which renders you to tread carefully.
plus i agree that prof/med advise is better taken off the inn-taa-netto, communities like this can show support or - not diagnose, but - detect some issue asking the person to seek help elsewhere. all it takes is to put the ego aside - on both sides.

Are you implying that people who feel hurt if people are unnecessary mean to them and for whom sleeping it over doesn't work, have mental health issues? And that they should get medical help for suppressing their natural emotions, instead of trying to stop people from being mean to them? I'm not sure if that is really what you mean but otherwise I don't understand it.

>imblygin
I'm not going to imply anything. You're assuming ... again. Please don't. Use your common sense.

(for the record: by me responding to that quoted part i exclusively meant cases when mental health issues are part of the issue, on whicheverside of the argument. i firmly believe it's not the case now)

That's why I asked, I don't understand what you meant then.

I’ve been also been reading and till now didn’t see a way for me to contribute productively to this thread, but I found some words.

I really appreciate the discussion that’s happened, people have been willing to risk speaking up in a hostile thread, for the benefit of the scene. There’s been some self analysis and self awareness of our failures. There’s been more attempt to understand and mediate than I’ve seen before (though I haven’t been on this forum for some time). It seems to me that a lot of caring and increasing understanding is happening.

I have similar issues with the competition as wayfinder, jix and others. It seems to me that by referencing paralympics in this compo title, and ridiculing/mocking those who enter it, this is by proxy ridiculing/mocking entrants of the paralympics. To me this sucks. 10 years ago it might have just caused upset to someone within the paralympic community, but thankfully we live in a world now where people outside that community also will speak up about it.

I also don’t agree with this concept that one should always choose not to be offended by someone else’s words, views, or actions. If it’s something unimportant sure, but if they’re causing harm, we shouldn’t just accept it silently.

@jix I’m really sorry you were mocked and bullied at revision and felt you wouldn’t be heard if you said something about that - this isn’t the environment that I thought we were in. I do understand how you drew your conclusions with so much dismissal and shutting down of drama. I hope you know some of us well enough now to know that we care and would want to know if that happened to support you or anyone else it happened to.

I agree with what you said about initial reactions not always being the best - after some time and discussion often initial uninformed viewpoints can lead to realization that they caused hurt, and a change of heart.

We have a diversity of views and opinions in this cool thing called the demoscene, with people old and young living across the world. I really hope that we continue to grow and learn from each other to make it something that everyone can enjoy. 🙏

+1

+4

+1

This thread made me actually want to visit a party again, if only to meet folks in real life.

Because you have to admit, communication over the internet is hard and a bit of a tragic
exercise, even for people who've attempted to do it for 25 years and more.

I used to think that Underground conference was "underground", like in a conspiracy, i. e. nothing that's happening there is getting to the outside world. It surprised me that there even is a website! And I think it's great UC exists. I will never be there, but I love to hear stories and rumours about it, fantazising about its alleged badness.

That said, it's time someone computes some statistics in order to display how many entries at Revision 2019 were strongly offensive in whatever way. I estimate less than 1 %.

So instead of walking away from the demo scene, talk to your actual friends who understand you, or find new ones. Most people at demoparties are very nice, reasonable and do care about other people's feelings.

At the end, this is a damn two-edged sword. Gargaj should start delisting stuff from Metalvotze, some Speckdrumm (turkish people may not be amused), some very special Spacepigs Wild Compo entry... let's go through the backlog and start correcting the world so no one feels offended.

Aside of that, what I remember from UC6.22 - it's a very rough happening anyways... so happy PARALYMP3 like there is no tomorrow!

How insecure must you be to think that not being a dick to people suddenly gives you flashbacks of the apocalypse?

JEHOVA! JEHOVA!

Me earlier on this thread:


EvilOne now:


*facepalm*

Me reading this thread:

*facepalm*

I disagree with the frustration above, after reading this thread I have realised that most of the scene feels as I do in regards to growing up and wanting more inclusivity. Rimina, chaos, wayfinder, noby, gargaj, jix, alk, et al have confirmed to me that most of us want new and old people to feel welcome and wanted in the scene. I may disagree with some of the comments above, but what I have taken from *all* of this discussion is that we all care about the scene, want it to flourish, and are willing to argue and deal with shit in order to make that happen. I hope the arguments don't distract from this basic urge, that we find a way through our differences without conflict, but regardless of that I am optimistic that we can keep on talking through the problems until we find a solution.

I would feel proud to show this discussion to outsiders, regardless of their politics or biases, as it shows how much we care and want to make a better scene. If they can't see that, fuck em. We can deal with people arguing, people leaving, people being dicks, and people caring too much, with an amount of decorum I wouldn't expect from random strangers on the internet or in real life. Obviously there is the odd shit post, but it is drowned out by the people who want to make things better. If anything, this thread and the surrounding reaction has confirmed to me that I am in the right place, a subculture that wants to do right and make others feel welcome regardless of the actions of a few. Because that means more demos, and that's what we are all really here for.

Yesterday someone directed me to this discussion. I told him that I did not really care anymore. The stress and hate partly with each other exceeds the fun of the thing.

The fact that you have so much time to discuss useless things shows that your scene is already dying out. If that were not the case, you would make your time more useful to make things for your scene. But the interest in demos seems to have shrunk so massively that the effort for a small live applause at a demo party does not seem to be worthwhile anymore. You creative people should be open with each other. You would have to say. In fact, you behave like competitors who have something to lose, and sometimes forget your manners.

This is demoscene that should take place out of fun and hobby and not out of competition and hatred. Measuring each other can also be fun if you respect each other. But respect is probably a foreign word in this day and age.

You discuss death without even a hint of thought that other opinions can endure.
This makes you tired and makes this scene viscous. What a pity, because where there is so much black humor and so much political openness, you should actually expect more.

Sincerely,
Your tired daXX

so you're saying discussing a public argument done by two prominent members of this subculture and raising concerns about how things are handled internally is basically hurting demoscene? just to be sure..