How not to deal with other people and their art
category: general [glöplog]
Just for the record, it took us less than 5 minutes to come up with a better name for the compo ("S&MP3") yesterday.
aaand i guessed correctly. may i also remark that the 'LostHisWay' was actually a funnier find than the entire ~6 minutes of the invite? ;)
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and i'm happy to see that most reactions have been along the lines of "wtf" and "looks like im not going".
Yeah, thanks for ruining the fun for multiple people just because you absolutely had to try force your perception on what art is OK and what isn't onto others.
And in regards of "keeping under wraps": It's simply that I do not post a private IRC conversation on Twitter.
And in regards of this "my compo" bullshit: You haven't even signed up to the orga team, and have done nothing so far other than causing drama with your SJW crap.
And my art is not a "mistake", and you aren't in charge deciding on what is OK and what isn't.
Why can't you just accept that you have the right to your own world view, and I have the right to have a different one? Who on earth do you believe to be to have the right to define what's good and bad, and demand that other people adapt to your world view?
I don't share your fucking world view, Morales and ethics. I have my own, thank you very much.
Since you both dragged this out to the public: You know what I think ? You should man-hug it out. Nice and sincere !
Life's just too short to short for petty wars like these !
Besides, what are your oh-so-controvserial views on "art", anyway ?
Life's just too short to short for petty wars like these !
Besides, what are your oh-so-controvserial views on "art", anyway ?
his views don't sit in a wheelchair
yeah if only you could have fooled these people about who you were for a little longer, they would have been so fucking happy. as i said, your own fucking fault. when your words turn people away, don't put it on me, and especially not with that pathetic "we dont talk about IRC" shit.
i was ready to attend the party as a visitor and just not run the compo. your reaction to this grave illoyalty was to uninvite me completely, and now you're trying to make me out as this big bad guy? i think it's pretty easy to see with whom the power in this dynamic lies.
your art is not a mistake in that you were making it deliberately, and you are fully aware of why people think it, and you, are problematic. you just decided you could get away with it is all. well you did! you're making the party, without me. you can even put the unhcr logo back in, since you revealed that you only removed that to placate me, not because you agreed it was inappropriate. you get everything you wanted, except my continued friendship.
i was ready to attend the party as a visitor and just not run the compo. your reaction to this grave illoyalty was to uninvite me completely, and now you're trying to make me out as this big bad guy? i think it's pretty easy to see with whom the power in this dynamic lies.
your art is not a mistake in that you were making it deliberately, and you are fully aware of why people think it, and you, are problematic. you just decided you could get away with it is all. well you did! you're making the party, without me. you can even put the unhcr logo back in, since you revealed that you only removed that to placate me, not because you agreed it was inappropriate. you get everything you wanted, except my continued friendship.
It's basically: If the majority of the scene likes and does not object, and votes it as a winner, probably the art is OK by scene standards.
And if the only complaint coming in is over Twitch, and this then is amplified for no use whatsoever, then someone is trying to force outside standards on what is OK and what isn't onto scene content. And that is not acceptable to me.
We always did and still have controversial discussions in regards of compo entries. For years, people asked Nosfe's compo entries to be banned, because people did not really like the concept of "noise" art. In the end the consensus that came out was that you always have to option to walk out while Nosfes entries are playing. The scene always has been applying on standards on what goes and what doesn't.
Again, the solution is obvious: If you don't like an entry, don't vote for it. And if the majority does like and vote for it, then STFU or go make a demo about it.
And if the only complaint coming in is over Twitch, and this then is amplified for no use whatsoever, then someone is trying to force outside standards on what is OK and what isn't onto scene content. And that is not acceptable to me.
We always did and still have controversial discussions in regards of compo entries. For years, people asked Nosfe's compo entries to be banned, because people did not really like the concept of "noise" art. In the end the consensus that came out was that you always have to option to walk out while Nosfes entries are playing. The scene always has been applying on standards on what goes and what doesn't.
Again, the solution is obvious: If you don't like an entry, don't vote for it. And if the majority does like and vote for it, then STFU or go make a demo about it.
Wayfinder, finally fucking get it: YOU ARE NOT THE PEOPLE!
It's just YOUR opinion. YOUR morale standards. YOUR world-view.
Stop trying to force it upon others.
It's just YOUR opinion. YOUR morale standards. YOUR world-view.
Stop trying to force it upon others.
dude you just kicked me out of your party because i dont share your views. get off your high horse. you dont get to hold the moral high ground when you're fighting for the right to hurt people without consequences
Surprise, it's my location, my party, my love, money and work that I put into it together with a team who like UC the way it is.
And yes, if you think you have the need to shit on my face in public, don't expect me to invite you.
I'm not kicking you out, I simply am convinced that these days you can no longer share the freedom UC brings. You've brought 8 weeks of drama for a shitty compo name and an icon in a demo and on a website. What shall I expect when there is something during UC you don't like?
I don't want your fucking drama anymore. Take your misery elsewhere.
I am on a high horse because it is MY fucking horse. Get your own horse if you have a problem with that.
Go make a demo about it / Go make a demoparty about it.
And yes, if you think you have the need to shit on my face in public, don't expect me to invite you.
I'm not kicking you out, I simply am convinced that these days you can no longer share the freedom UC brings. You've brought 8 weeks of drama for a shitty compo name and an icon in a demo and on a website. What shall I expect when there is something during UC you don't like?
I don't want your fucking drama anymore. Take your misery elsewhere.
I am on a high horse because it is MY fucking horse. Get your own horse if you have a problem with that.
Go make a demo about it / Go make a demoparty about it.
the uninvitation did not come after i did anything in public, it came immediately after i asked you in private not to be an organizer. your excuses are fucking flimsy as shit, you're personally hurt that you couldn't muscle me into doing what you wanted so you're now trying to punish me. i hope someone you actually respect notices and sets you right
Guys...this thing was an issue between both of you.
Scamp uninvited Wayfinder.
Then wayfinder published an IRC Chat (calling it a quote doesnt make it better).
Next scamp reacts with a public statement - more oil for the fire.
Now we a have new flamewar/scenedrama on pouet.
And the whole house is on fire.
Where shall this lead to?
Both of you, calm down a bit.
Please...
There are people around you BOTH who feel bad about this.
Groupmates, friends, families.
Find a way to work this out.
Maybe someone can mediate in this case...
Scamp uninvited Wayfinder.
Then wayfinder published an IRC Chat (calling it a quote doesnt make it better).
Next scamp reacts with a public statement - more oil for the fire.
Now we a have new flamewar/scenedrama on pouet.
And the whole house is on fire.
Where shall this lead to?
Both of you, calm down a bit.
Please...
There are people around you BOTH who feel bad about this.
Groupmates, friends, families.
Find a way to work this out.
Maybe someone can mediate in this case...
read the post on uc site, didnt read responses on this thread.
scamp: i think you're in the right, haters gonna hate but they don't have to watch the invitation or attend the event so no use wasting your time discussing political correctness with them. if something feels like it should be improved, it's great to get that feedback as food for thought and maybe change things in the future to make your controversial thing more clear or accepting or whatever they are reinvindicating, but don't get bullied out of your time and effort into creating someone else's definition of the perfect event _RIGHT NOW_ for people who won't even attend it. if you don't identify with an event, ignore it.
scamp: i think you're in the right, haters gonna hate but they don't have to watch the invitation or attend the event so no use wasting your time discussing political correctness with them. if something feels like it should be improved, it's great to get that feedback as food for thought and maybe change things in the future to make your controversial thing more clear or accepting or whatever they are reinvindicating, but don't get bullied out of your time and effort into creating someone else's definition of the perfect event _RIGHT NOW_ for people who won't even attend it. if you don't identify with an event, ignore it.
You are forgetting about the 8 weeks of bitching, threatening, bullying about that damn icon and compo name. And the bitching again on that same day. We had "If you don't change your art, I will no longer be your friend", and having used up that one already you moved to "If you don't change your art, I will no longer be an organizer". Both are shitty ways to blackmail someone to force your world view onto them.
And I didn't want you to do anything than leaving me alone and not trying to force your world view onto me. It's not that you have paid me back for all I've done for you, but not making me part of your damn SJW mission wasn't really too much to ask for, was it? I did respect that you now have a very different view onto yourself and the world than a couple of years ago. I do miss the Wayfinder that did create the "hitler melon" GIF and always did word-play no matter how offensive it was. I did accept you aren't that guy anymore. That's your choice and that's fine.
But now try to respect that I don't share these views.
Again: It's just YOUR opinion. YOUR morale standards. YOUR world-view. You have all the right in the world to have those, and no right in the world to force me into adopting them.
Create your own art, enter compos, or setup your own demo party. Then you can apply your own standards as much as you like, and can measure if those are valued.
But inside the scene, scene standards apply on what content is OK and what is not. It's not to be decided by a Twitter mob.
So stop the bitching about other people's art, thoughts, speech and world-view. Go create something yourself instead of trying to turn great things into shit for others.
End of discussion for me.
And I didn't want you to do anything than leaving me alone and not trying to force your world view onto me. It's not that you have paid me back for all I've done for you, but not making me part of your damn SJW mission wasn't really too much to ask for, was it? I did respect that you now have a very different view onto yourself and the world than a couple of years ago. I do miss the Wayfinder that did create the "hitler melon" GIF and always did word-play no matter how offensive it was. I did accept you aren't that guy anymore. That's your choice and that's fine.
But now try to respect that I don't share these views.
Again: It's just YOUR opinion. YOUR morale standards. YOUR world-view. You have all the right in the world to have those, and no right in the world to force me into adopting them.
Create your own art, enter compos, or setup your own demo party. Then you can apply your own standards as much as you like, and can measure if those are valued.
But inside the scene, scene standards apply on what content is OK and what is not. It's not to be decided by a Twitter mob.
So stop the bitching about other people's art, thoughts, speech and world-view. Go create something yourself instead of trying to turn great things into shit for others.
End of discussion for me.
yes i must absolutely do things that make me uncomfortable because otherwise it's blackmail. what other leverage did i have? i cared deeply about the issue, but you did not respect my views, then or now. it's my free decision under these circumstances to call the friendship a loss and be sad, instead of acquiescing to your demands and staying quiet. your actions, especially your REactions, ended this friendship. and by the time they did you knew that was what was going to happen and were obviously fine with it.
judging by today's events, i absolutely made the right call. i am literally horrified at who you have turned out to be.
judging by today's events, i absolutely made the right call. i am literally horrified at who you have turned out to be.
oh, the other person is wayfinder, wow soap opera mode, where is my popcorn.
but seriously: can't you two just agree to disagree and de-escalate the thing? peace and love? group hug?
but seriously: can't you two just agree to disagree and de-escalate the thing? peace and love? group hug?
the "8 weeks of bitching, threatening, bullying" were two (2) irc conversations btw, 8 weeks apart, with not a single word about the issue inbetween, despite meeting in person in that time
two irc conversations i'm happy to post, how about you scamp
two irc conversations i'm happy to post, how about you scamp
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But inside the scene, scene standards apply on what content is OK and what is not. It's not to be decided by a Twitter mob.
Lest we forget: you two have equal amount of decision power as to what's acceptable in the scene and what's not. Neither of you speaks for everyone.
yes, there's the demoscene clique for that!
I'm doing now what I don't do normally, and it is this one post on this topic.
I am one of the ones, who now is sad, grieved and disappointed, because I hoped for some people, who will probably not come to the UC9 now because of this happening, because most of them probably don't know how to handle it properly.
But I myself will be present at the UC9 anyway, to have some fun at the end somehow then anyway, and so that my work effort for the UC9 wouldn't have been for nothing at the end.
I don't know who's right here, and I don't want to know that either, because that's a pure thing between you both two that you should settle yourself without the publicity, but i hope at least here for some good end, even if it doesn't look like it at the moment sadly.
And as docd has already also said here, there are some same people around you both, which probaly don't know now, how they should handle it properly, including me myself. And I follow the recommendation of docd as well, that you both should try to clarify it somehow and get back together if at all possible.
At least at the moment, even as a person who is not affected by this conflict, I myself am strongly touched, sad and grieved. That should give you thinking.
I am one of the ones, who now is sad, grieved and disappointed, because I hoped for some people, who will probably not come to the UC9 now because of this happening, because most of them probably don't know how to handle it properly.
But I myself will be present at the UC9 anyway, to have some fun at the end somehow then anyway, and so that my work effort for the UC9 wouldn't have been for nothing at the end.
I don't know who's right here, and I don't want to know that either, because that's a pure thing between you both two that you should settle yourself without the publicity, but i hope at least here for some good end, even if it doesn't look like it at the moment sadly.
And as docd has already also said here, there are some same people around you both, which probaly don't know now, how they should handle it properly, including me myself. And I follow the recommendation of docd as well, that you both should try to clarify it somehow and get back together if at all possible.
At least at the moment, even as a person who is not affected by this conflict, I myself am strongly touched, sad and grieved. That should give you thinking.
i'm very sorry to hear that, and i wish things were different. i appreciate that the situation is more complicated for you than for many others :(
Original issue: compo name "ParalyMP3"
Fix: rename it to something different, like the suggested "S&MP3" which is actually much better than the original. Also other suggestion could be just "drill sergeamp3" or "drill instructor music compo" or what ever else.
So I wouldn't exacty go on saying that art is censored, if the main request was just to change the frigging name. Or alternatively just have a new organizer for the compo. :)
I've done way way way more inappropriate stuff than the compo name in the demoscene without any regret, so I can't honestly say that I'd care about the name at all. However 1980/90s called and really wants all its fighting and flamewars back.
Hope that you two can find a common understanding, forgive and be friends again.
Fix: rename it to something different, like the suggested "S&MP3" which is actually much better than the original. Also other suggestion could be just "drill sergeamp3" or "drill instructor music compo" or what ever else.
So I wouldn't exacty go on saying that art is censored, if the main request was just to change the frigging name. Or alternatively just have a new organizer for the compo. :)
I've done way way way more inappropriate stuff than the compo name in the demoscene without any regret, so I can't honestly say that I'd care about the name at all. However 1980/90s called and really wants all its fighting and flamewars back.
Hope that you two can find a common understanding, forgive and be friends again.
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Hope that you two can find a common understanding, forgive and be friends again.
be happy and hardcore again <3
the title is only half misleading
How not to deal with other people and their art
How not to deal with other people and their art
at first i thought that scamp was really trolled and bullied by a bunch of people in twitter and social networks for nothing. but now when situation began to clear up, it looks like personal inner demoscene coflict?
