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havoc wrote::) Yeah, it was around that long time ago that I was at my last demo-party :)

Oh, 'mccnex' here made some points ("headhunters") I made after, I didn't read his post first :P

BTW, I forgot the sellers at big demo-parties like DreamHack, those that sells computer-component brands, like ASUS. It's good that demo-parties get sponsorship, although I think that the entrance-fee is still high :)

@gargaj.Yes, I think it's great that many demo-coders became professional game-programmers that earns lots of money. Of course, I'd like them to come back to the demo-scene sometimes and release a demo, like Chaos and Smash does.

I'd say that the demoscene is a artistic nerdish (in a good cool way) computer-community.

about demoscene and patreon: there are a few more sceners in there then just me and ferris, but no one is in it strictly in with a "fund my demomaking" stance, it's always with another kind of content of some sort. iq, jscott and viznut are other sceners that come to mind being in patreon but i'm positive there are more. it's a nice concept, although demoscene is inherently anti-capitalist (atleast in my head) so it's normal sceners don't keep those options in mind. it's a hobby, not something people ever consider doing full time / professionaly supported. not sure how scene would react if there were more demos that were paid for. i say more because there were a few in the past (recall tales from gus sponsorships, ofcourse africola, masagin for a bunch of new computers and i'm sure other folks will remember a few more)

i agree with Waffemann that some sceners only use the scene as a launching pad to game industry (we had a few cases of that in Portugal atleast). once they are in a fulltime position on a top game company they don't release demos anymore. maybe it's just lack of time, lack of interest. i consider those folks demoscene tourists or curious. and it's fine, you do whatever contribution to the demoscene as you feel like it.

it doesn't however imply that most demosceners are in it for the game dev market exposure though, far from it. those are a minority. most demosceners i know do demos because they like doing demos and attending demoparties, meeting old friends again, etc.

To be fair a lot of sceners went straight into games/similar industries after a couple of years. (the amiga scene '89-'91 is a very good example of this) I think getting exposure from demos was a viable thing during that time because there weren't a many ways to do real-time that were accessible. (pretty much every game developer I knew back then were watching demos and quite a few people transferred their skills straight over) But I can think of plenty more places to get visibility in the real-time space now.

Some parts of this discussion reads like good old articles in Hugi, Imphobia or so :)

I agree on my personal account that demoscene is a hobby,

In my case strongly fed by the nostalgia toward old computing times and friends from the era.

I also have huge sentiment to do something occasionally that nonetheless has any practical sense today, yet feeds the hunger kids in gaming refer as retro. This reason also drove me back to demoscene. I still consider it a cultural phenomena defining several geek generations of the past, shaping me in this aspect very much.

On growing pro with demoscene. I've seen many people took the route to gamedev through either short or long demoscene experience.

I see no problem with that.

Scene is foremost a community of people with a joint subject that brought us together but also there is individual ambition and goals in life to be respected.

I consider though it was more attractive to join us as an entry point to gamedev in the past than today. It's super easy to start into gaming and skipp the demoscene part completely today.

Earlier it was to me a technological stand point. Proof that a single person, a hobbist can kick ass of industry celebrities like Carmack and similar were perceived in 90ties.

Now.. it's more a creative movement that comes with a experience of multiple generations both of human and computer counterpart of the same thing.

For a newbie, I'd say it may be really hard to understand why it's important without a mentor.

Like dubmarines :D



No, not after scenepoints failed.

I just leave this here.

I ship fizzer and noby. OTP

make demos, not money!

superglueing glad+glfw+assimp+bass+glm+stb_image+rocket together in 2 afternoons and pretending that it's THE TRUE DEMOSCENE WAY.

been there, done that. i prefer unity!

Interesting, I never used glad, glfw, assimp etc. In addition to a dozen engines, I also wrote my own 3ds, obj and texture loader, for example. I dynamically loaded OpenGL functions and wrote my own header for that. And I can tell you, even if I only shown two tiny demos until now, I learnt a lot by doing that. The only third party thing that I really used to use was micromod, but I should have written my own mod player to learn even more.

But that's ok, guys, I think that this is enough, no need for us to battle about this. Not all programmers are the same, and everyone is entitled to his own vision, so, at this point I just hope we can forget these differences in the past. No hard feelings here.

Oh and by the way, some of my engines were pure software rasterization ones, the first ones written in asm as well. =)

I can't describe the pleasure of seeing my first triangle filling, poly clipping and texture mapping routines working for the first time, even if not as fast as some more clever ones I seen by other smarter guys. My full respect to them.

Kisses.

When talking about software -- as in programming -- that is what I call PROGRAMMING ART. Writing a few Unity scripts does not feel like art to me, sorry. But not everyone is obligated to agree, that's ok.

thank you for the three posts of no hard feelings... i got it on the first one!

I am impressed with noby's statements. He's not only a good coder but also has clue about philosophy. It's great to have somebody like him in the scene.

Digging up an old post, but I think shit like this is outrageous. The vast majority of demoparty sponsorship is sceners who are also entrepreneurs who are giving some of their own, hard-earned money away for kicks. I understand that some people hate companies no matter what, but this is simply insulting.

"Big business party sponsors"? Seriously? I mean, you are talking about evil big corporations such as Stiegler Legal, right? Capitalist pigs like Individual Computers?

Or Viprinet.

And what the fuck is wrong with business anyway?

Goddamn hippies

demomaking is meeting people and sharing demos. what else ^^

Demomaking is not a crime, except in Germany where it is blocked by GEMA.

be glad those capitalist-bastard-companies actually bother to spend money on our irrelevant hobby, they could also not bother, especially with weirdo grumps like some of the above! unless you want to watch your demo on a white table cloth projected by a 200E beamer from Mediamarkt in some draughty barn without electricity!

I didn't know those cheap beamers didn't need electricity! :-)

It would run on batteries, of course.

liSU: we can borrow D-Force's UPS, obviously! (and then dont forget to plug the compo machine in, like last time!) :P