Use of UE et cetera
category: general [glöplog]
(grammar) not forced too label -> not forced to label
tomkh: thats not my attitude at all. but if its easier for you to think that .. go ahead!
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You made demos in werkkzeug
As made clear in the demo, in the slides and in in the.nfo: http://www.pouet.net/prod_nfo.php?which=18446
I also stated that fact in my openingpost.. I have nothing againts Notch, UE, Unity or any other demotool. I love the fact that they insipre, motivate and make sure we get to see more demos.
Haha :) I think this refers to UE? I am aware that making a demo with UE4 requires a fair amount of (coding) skills. Unlike Notch and Werkkzeug there isn't a generate demo-button.
Besides this: proper respect to anyone releases demos, no matter the toolset. <3
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You, and the guy who just posted, should show some goddamn humility.
Haha :) I think this refers to UE? I am aware that making a demo with UE4 requires a fair amount of (coding) skills. Unlike Notch and Werkkzeug there isn't a generate demo-button.
Besides this: proper respect to anyone releases demos, no matter the toolset. <3
numtek: lol, many demosceners are bunch of conservative a-holes.
I actually remember when Werkzeug was passe.
I also remember some guys complaining that 64k was done using a tool (omg! a tool!) - even if this tool was written entirely by the author. Actually I tend to fall into the same trap, but I have to admit that this stubborness and fear of changes is pretty hilarious :-D
I actually remember when Werkzeug was passe.
I also remember some guys complaining that 64k was done using a tool (omg! a tool!) - even if this tool was written entirely by the author. Actually I tend to fall into the same trap, but I have to admit that this stubborness and fear of changes is pretty hilarious :-D
Smash: I must admit I used to think "newschool demos are easier", but given how much the hardware constraints of old platforms actually also help you both in terms of choosing what to do and the time it takes to do it, I've changed my mind.
also: please do an article or something about the making of "number one" :)
also: please do an article or something about the making of "number one" :)
You're glossing over some important parts of that story: You're pointing at an era where people making tool-based 64ks were under the impression that having a tool is the only thing you need to make a good 64k - with any leap in technology there's an adjustment period until people become comfortable and start understanding what the capacity of a technology is.
As a result, there's always stuff that's just not good, and it's always fair to call it out. That's not a judgement about the technology, but about the misuse of it. The same way we're barely at the start of the era where Unity or Unreal is starting to get used "properly", and thus some of the prods that can't transcend that box get criticised for it - this is all perfectly normal part of evolution.
As a result, there's always stuff that's just not good, and it's always fair to call it out. That's not a judgement about the technology, but about the misuse of it. The same way we're barely at the start of the era where Unity or Unreal is starting to get used "properly", and thus some of the prods that can't transcend that box get criticised for it - this is all perfectly normal part of evolution.
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doing something really modern and cutting edge is far, far more difficult now than in the old days - there's far more material to learn and code to write to get there
While it's true that there is more material to learn nowadays, there is also a lot more accessible material (research papers, tutorials, books, documentation, code samples, etc)
Writing you own software rasterizer, doing the 3D maths etc back in the late 80s / early 90s was close to doing black magic, most of us had no idea where we were going or how to get there.
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anyone who thinks coding modern PC demos is "easy" because "hardware is unlimited and you can do anything you want" so they aren't impressed with the code - go code up the effects in e.g. Wander for me and prove it.. :)
This is also true and I don't see a "better than you" attitude here, I only see a "try it and see for yourself" attitude.
Why do I have the feeling that most people wouldn't even know what the effects in Wander ARE...
Because if they did, that demo would have a lot more thumbs up.
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And apart from labelling a demo, it would be nice if authors will provide some sort of 'making of' in the nfo with a description what was done using standard assets/code and which effect/shader was coded entirely from scratch.
I get that for discussing the how-to, later on, if you're actually interested in the design choices. But if it's for dumbing down things into a difficulty factor for lamers to pretend to understand even though they really have no clue, then it's just dumb. I feel that the whining about engines is the latter.
Maybe for these whiners, MODs should come with a "lamer advisory" text which explains where the samples are from, what modules and artists were imitated, what other people have traditionally considered as respectable things, that ST-01 usage might be considered funny, etc. So they don't accidentally show respect to the wrong thing!
Yeah. Lamer advisory. That's what is being asked IMO.
yzi: yeah,but then nobody should complain that some UE demo was underestimated. Or why 'Wander' got 2nd place and lost with arguably worse demo made with the same tool by an outsider (who didn't write this tool).
Why do you care? Let the lamers complain. The problem comes from these lamer advisory texts. If we have come to a point where demos cannot be watched without being modeled into a "assessment of various difficulty aspects generally accepted in the prevailing scene culture" score card, then aren't we all just DUMB to even take part in such display of stupidity?
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added on the 2018-08-08 11:11:40 by smash smash
Even that I hate Smash "I'm better than you" attitude, he has a good point here.
Now cool it.
When I was setting up the Shader Grand Prix 2019 bracket tournament that motherfucker was the first one to say yes I'll do it. And nobody's comfortable with their opponents.
There's an image that some people portray (I do as well) and there's the real person behind it. Matt is a cool guy who works hard for what he achieves.
Except he obviously doesn't know that if you pin the camera target to a joint of a character, you do a lowpass, then a linear prediction a few ms into the future, then a lowpass again. But apart from that!
(Sorry, just watched Wander again, and I still very much like it :) )
(Sorry, just watched Wander again, and I still very much like it :) )
Was that supposed to be funny, contender number 3? ;)
Of course not. Camera work is serious business.
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If we have come to a point where demos cannot be watched without being modeled into a "assessment of various difficulty aspects generally accepted in the prevailing scene culture" score card, then aren't we all just DUMB to even take part in such display of stupidity?
👏👏👏
Also, why is smash being picked on? To me he comes off as one of the more level-headed voices in this discussion, and not at all condescending. Am I missing something, or are people so insecure that they have to externalise their inferiority complex by blaming successful people?
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Quote:If we have come to a point where demos cannot be watched without being modeled into a "assessment of various difficulty aspects generally accepted in the prevailing scene culture" score card, then aren't we all just DUMB to even take part in such display of stupidity?
👏👏👏
Also, why is smash being picked on? To me he comes off as one of the more level-headed voices in this discussion, and not at all condescending. Am I missing something, or are people so insecure that they have to externalise their inferiority complex by blaming successful people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Hill_(game)
dang it gargaj, dang it
Wow this thread...
It seems that some people think that using UE,Unity,Notch,etc comes with a button called “Make pretty demo” and you are done. I hate to break the news to you but that isn’t the case. As someone that as a profession works on modern graphics rendering and write code to Amiga and such I feel I’m pretty qualified to have an opinion here.
To me both is a challenge but the challenge is different: Doing something on PC with “unlimited” power is hard but it’s not the same hard as doing something on C64 or Amiga. You don’t need to do SMC inside a shader for it to run fast(er) but have to spend lots of time on other things instead while it’s often the other way around on lower-end platforms.
I enjoy doing both but not because one is easier than the other but because the challenge is different.
Also I agree what Smash said: If you think it easy, prove everyone in this thread wrong and make a demo about it.
It seems that some people think that using UE,Unity,Notch,etc comes with a button called “Make pretty demo” and you are done. I hate to break the news to you but that isn’t the case. As someone that as a profession works on modern graphics rendering and write code to Amiga and such I feel I’m pretty qualified to have an opinion here.
To me both is a challenge but the challenge is different: Doing something on PC with “unlimited” power is hard but it’s not the same hard as doing something on C64 or Amiga. You don’t need to do SMC inside a shader for it to run fast(er) but have to spend lots of time on other things instead while it’s often the other way around on lower-end platforms.
I enjoy doing both but not because one is easier than the other but because the challenge is different.
Also I agree what Smash said: If you think it easy, prove everyone in this thread wrong and make a demo about it.
I downloaded touchdesigner, stole some shadertoy stuff which easily can be implemented in touchdesigner, then stole some track and gonna release the shit when people sleep.
Maybe one day party organizers decide to split the PC demo compo to
commercial pc engine compo and non-commercial pc engine compo..
commercial pc engine compo and non-commercial pc engine compo..
Or maybe they won't, because it's pointless.
Not if it contains particles (as many of todays hyped prods excessively do)!
