pouët.net

finally this discussion leads to the same old question: what is a demo and what's special for this scene .. we had this discussion already in conjunction with the size limitation of prods .. at least I'd say it's not just "fancy visual arts" on computers no matter how it's done .. if you find an answer for that you will find the answer if using engines is still a scene prod or something different ..

Demos are made of cheese.

okkie: don't tell wallace & gromit!

I’m annoyed at these guys that use halumi for their demos as it’s a lot easier to make than my Stilton!!!

Gargaj: *hug*

make that a double hug

No, no, not everyone.

I was originally attracted to the demoscene because when I was 11 years old, I had a penpal (Activater aka Scorpe of ROLE) who was very enthusiastic about the demoscene and told me that the demosceners were the ones who had the best programming skills of all.

So, in my humble opinion a demo that does not show off original code misses the point of the demoscene. However, it may still be a nice piece of art. It is just not what originally attracted me to the demoscene.

(I know you don't care about my opinion.)

Im currently making a demo using Unity and it's quite hard. Even when stoling all assets. But is fun. Just so you know.

You made a demo. You enjoyed it. What can happen next:

1) Go to a party. If it is within the constraints of the competition (and that, currently, includes using UE or Unity), you show it to the people. Some will be impressed if you did it all with your own engine, some (most?) will not care either way. There will be discussions over the merits of using UE or not, and that's ok, it's healthy

2) Some guys see your demo online and ask you about it. You say "It was in UE" - great, you're hired as a UE guy. Or you say "It was made in C++" - great job, you're hired as a c++ guy

One day when you're much older you'll be pleased and proud that you did this demo; maybe it got you this nice job, or some nice memories at a party. And by then it will be completely irrelevant (or forgotten) what you've used to do it.

It's no Gargaj-poetry but worth saying: amen and +1.

What navis said

From now on Tim Sweeney is a honorary member of Jumalauta, so if you want to make a demo with UE and feel legit about it you can release it under the almighty jML banner.

Why not set the demo size limit to the minimum unreal engine size.

What the hell would that accomplish?

Because people WANT to have UE demos. "All techniques allowed" etc should mean that. Create the best possible realtime thing that this super mega PC can do, without restrictions.

If you aren't able to tell the difference between a good and a bad demo, it's your problem. You're too lame to even watch. I know I am, and I don't try to pretend I have any idea what's happening. Do what I do, concentrate on some simpler categories that you can somehow understand.

In the case of DEMO2 I missed the reference and yeah I felt cheated. And I didn't even participate in the compo.

There are limitations/. They are called rules and categories. Granted they could be bend and that is part of the fun right? It's all part of the game. Using 10.000+ manhours of work by an entire team without proper credit/atrribution has nothing to do with circumventing limitations. It has no correlation with shoving in some dirty prerendered animations in your demo, or using middleware to calculate particleflow. If you use an entire toolchain, editor, meshloader and .exe- exporter without credit that is called cheating.

You made demos in werkkzeug

So, you cannot handle the genre, you want a lame watcher handicap system? You want a jury to assign each effect a difficulty factor, because you can't tell yourself?

I say, take away all for-dummies explanations and demand that the viewers know something.

Also, why is this all of a sudden a problem now? Poo-Brain made a demo in unity and everyone was cool with it. Revision had like four notch demos and two won prizes and nobody seems to care. What gives?

Emphasize, poo-brain made a demo in unity five years ago

It became a problem because these guys from Kurikka DID NOT KNOW and they felt cheated when they learned about things like that.

Also use UE at work but this is the scene so its more cool and elite to have own (not commercial) engine :)