pouët.net

I know for sure that I am the best version of myself when I am alone.

in demoscene, everyone is a bit awkward and/or mediocre, in one aspect or another.

everyone you talk to is 1., better than you in some aspect, 2., worse than you in some other aspect and 3., have their own struggles, whatever their facade may be.

knowing this works just like picturing the audience naked while giving a speech :D (ok that last part is bs probably)

OK, prepare yourself for some naked bullshit, usually I don't care very much about this kind of threads but after read most of the previous post I feel that I need to explain a bit my point of view about this issue.

First, every "arrogance" is mainly just an imaginary thing (I don't believe that there are real arrogants in the scene) a misperception of the person trying to meet the other demoscener (who is always the arrogant one, of course).

Second, every "social awkwardness" is pretty must real, not something imaginary (although it could be a thing that the persons that are not experiencing it never perceive, and they could interpret it like "arrogance" or whatever).

Third, "social awkwardness" is not the same thing for every person that experience it. If you wanna talk about it, then should explain what causes to you that uneasiness, annoyance, etc... that is then "called" (mostly by others) "social awkwardness".

In my case, is not related to any insecurity. Is not related with people (although people causes it unintentionally, especially when they are many). It's mostly related with the way my senses and my brains work.

Basically, always, my senses are very alert and processing everything. Especially sight and sound. This increases a lot when I need to put my mind in motion (do creative things like coding) and when I enter the "state of creative flow" every annoying thing is double or triple annoying.

Some of you would say "ignore that things". I can't. It's absolutely impossible. Besides, I love the way my brain works and I think that there is nothing to "fix" here. The problem is that I am among the minority so being understood is a very rare thing and being misunderstood is the usual.

So, when I go to a demoparty I want to release things. Many times, those things must be finished at the party. I put my earplugs and my ear protectors over my earplugs and I try to use the hours with most silence. Normally I go to an hotel (I didn't this Revision, bad decision) and I finish my stuff there.

Anyway, sometimes, some random person, (especially at Euskal Party, where I am kind of "famous" for releasing things every year) while I am in a living hell trying to debug something before the deadline, approach me to say something to me that he/her could perfectly say in another moment AFTER the deadline and then speak louder or even touch me to demand my attention. In those cases, I always dispatch that person in the minimum amount of seconds possible and make pretty sure that he/she don't repeat it BEFORE the deadline. I usually forget it the whole thing a few minutes after if I can return to my flow. I don't care about that person feelings. I care about my task in that moment, finish some prod in a living hell. That person could return after the deadline and speak to me about anything because then I don't feel so bad and if he/her doesn't want to and prefer to decide that I am an arrogant bastard is fine too. After all, what people could think cannot disturb me more that what people could do.

The other person could thing that I am an arrogant bastard. I do not care very much as long as he/she never do that again to me. I want to release prods first, then socialize.

The thing is that nobody can demand attention as if they have a right to meet me (or other person like me) in every moment and expect that everything will be as they expect to be. The things would be as they could be.

This revision I decided to stop coding my Amiga intro (which by the way was just a compofiller) the moment I realize I'll suffer too much if I try to finish on time.

I enjoyed the party more. Even if I got to the democompos in such state that I fell sleep with my eyes open (even during Amiga compos) due to the extreme sensory overload and sleep deprivation.

That's the main cause of my social awkwardness and my "arrogance". Another thing is that I use to speak the truth and what I think, no matter the consequences (except if the consequences are really bad for others, like "life or death" kind of bad thing, I mean).

By the way, who put that videogame machine in the most silent place of the party? Put that next to the pinballs, please. People need to sleep/retire to silence and was cold outside. They could even use the socket to plug a laptop and code in silence.
Thanks in advance.

You mean the gaming station within the tunnel? It's kind of an official feature of the party since years and people use to make great use of it. Also it makes the tunnel less boring and is not that noisy actually - in case you don't decide to sleep directly in front of it, which you shouldn't anyways, because then nobody can play anymore. Other then that - there are free earplugs available at the infodesk.

Or turn the tv down?

This is a bit offtopic. Sorry. But I need to answer even if was obvious (to me) that my question was rhetoric and that I don't really want to know who put those horrendous videogame noises inside the most beautiful and silent place.


v3nom: I understand that is not that noisy to you (someone who seems to need only earplugs to sleep and not earplugs AND earmuffs like me -things I always bring with me to demoparties just to protect my sanity, lucky you that need only earplugs!-) but do you really believe that sleeping is less important than playing? Interesting point of view if that is the case. Anyway... that tunnel was the most awesome place inside the E-Werk and I even achieved my 3 or 4 hours of sleep each night in despite of that noisy Nintendo so don't worry too much about the dreadful possibility that I, or someone else, could fall asleep in front of that TV and over those gamepads someday preventing you, or someone else, to play and relax.

farfar: I lowered the volume a little bit but I confess that the temptation of turn the whole thing off was strong.


Just to make it clear, I enjoyed Revision immensely and you guys are awesome. Next year I'll finish my stuff in time just to enjoy the party even more.


Now, please, return to the topic about awkwardness and arrogance, that is far more interesting than any of my cranky rants. I only want one thing of all you who post here: Please, explain the particular causes (or the things that you think the causes are) of your social awkwardness like I did and do not think that your social awkwardness is always of the same kind in every case.

I don't know about experiencing anyone as "arrogant" at Revision or whatnot, most interactions have been seemingly cordial.

However at Revision, being as big as it is, sometimes it sometimes feels like it can be difficult to track someone down and talk to them, perhaps more so if you've not met them before. That's not really a fault of the person, though.

As to people before who've mentioned being more likely to talking to people they know / met before, I can say from my experience I do that mostly because I wouldn't know exactly what to talk to some other people about, unless there's something nearby or relevant that just sort of organically started the conversation.

I don't claim to be introverted or extroverted. Once I get to know people or a situation well enough I may be relatively outgoing, but throw me into a place/event where I know nobody and there's nothing to focus on (like board games or something), then sure, I'll may stick to myself.

That said, a lot of the conversations I have at Revision are fairly short because I'm tracking someone down to give them stuff or someone tracked me down to get whatever that year's swag is. :) There's usually not a lot to say after they've collected their item and why hold you down with an unrelated conversation when all you want to do is get back to your table?

but, I mean, if you've felt otherwise about interactions with me this is something I may not entirely pick up on so letting me know would help. :)

This happened to me at Breakpoint 2007 or 2008. One guy I knew for a long time already always wanted to talk to me whenever I went outside to get some coffee or food. I really had no time for chit chat due to being WAY past the deadline already and said it to him several times. And then, when he asked one more time, I told him that I really have no time in a way he wasn't able to misunderstand. He later told me he was quite shocked as he didn't expect that but I actually didn't mean it in a bad way, it was lack of sleep and deadline stress combined which lead to that reaction. Just don't take anything too seriously people say at demo parties, they may be stressed (for several reasons) or may just have a bad day. This is all human. :)

Interestingly, I've experienced somewhat the reverse of much of what has been discussed here.

I'm pretty extroverted (in that: I like having people around, I don't mind meeting new people, I enjoy conversations and I don't usually get stuck, plus I feel energized by such things). A few times, I have been contacted after demoparties were over by people who more or less expressed this type of sentiment:

"I really wanted to say hi/have a chat but you were always busy or standing in a crowd and I never felt comfortable to approach you guys as you felt you were in the middle of something all the time."

Obviously, it makes me a little sad if people feel I'm too busy or unapproachable, even though I go out of my way sometimes to make sure I'm not. With that in mind, if this happens at a party I'm at, feel free to send me a Twitter DM or email and just let me know. It's not weird, and I wouldn't want to miss out on saying hi to anyone who'd like to talk to me.

Also (and not really related to this, but I feel I should mention it anyway), if I'm working on a entry I tend to go "into the zone", and I'm not very talkative. One of my worst experiences was not having time to hang out with Hoffman and a few others at TRSAC. It still bothers me that I was indirectly dismissive of people around me, and for that I'm sorry.

ham: of course feel free to turn the music down or turn the TV off at nighttimes. But I don't think that the tunnel should be a 24h silo of silence, therefore it probably won't be moved to the pinballs but will stay there for the people to enjoy (who can turn it back on when they feel like it) I think since we're all old enough this kind of stuff can be managed by the crowd autonomously.

That would be a deterrent to me as well. Also whenever someone new joins the conversation, I might be prone to just pull back, be silent for a couple of minutes and then quietly back out.

Personality judgement studies is what you are probably looking for.
It is well understood that personality judgement is not accurate. It is biased due to complex preconditions that everyone poses - think stereotypes and prejudice.

As an example we can get impression that someone is arrogant just from his facial expression, the tone of his voice (intonation) or the choice of vocabulary (e.g. overly fancy vocabulary is usually frowned upon).
The probability of making an error in judgement is higher if our point of reference is different than a target individual.

Some notable examples:
1. If target is a famous scener (aka demoscene celebrity), he is at the higher risk of being considered arrogant by less famous sceners (sort of by default).
2. A technical person with good analytical thinking skills (often mistaken for 'autistic attention to detail' by non-technical people) is usually equated with 'smart-ass' and condescending.
3. A quiet, introvert person will be at a high risk of being considered antisocial, even that he may be really friendly and caring.

The simple conclusion is: just don't worry too much if you are being misjudged. Unless of course it is really consistent in different environments and situations ;)

It sure is great to have those three boxes to put people into.

there is a 4th one:
4. nagz - may or may not be drunk. approach at own risk. scrutinize fine motoric movement from a safe distance to determine level of wastedness. physically harmless.

This is one of the main reasons I haven't gone to a demoparty even though I've threatened to a few times; my social awkwardness knows no bounds, I'm also initially quite shy, adding that to anxiety is a pretty evil combination.

A lot of what you guys have been saying makes me happy that people like you exist, I'd still love to go, but my irrational fears still exist...

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from coming to the party, securing a table, putting there your laptop just for the start. Then you'll see how things will look like. Coming out to people and socialising, although nice, is NOT obligatory and there is just one rule - do whatever you want to do, as long as you're not harming anyone.

Give it a go, it might be a beginning of a new journey in your life and the scene might end up being just another bus stop on your way.


Also, regardless how strongly you hold your melodica, he'll always end up playing Second Reality on it.

but only for a short time, then goes the pseudo-jazz with MMaj7 chord randomization

Ronny, I remember you hugged me while you were leaving at the end of the party,
much better than some small talk :)))

@8-bit buggery Hope you'll be able to rationalize your fears some day. I don't know if threatening yourself to it would do any good without preparation beforehand. That gets me to the question (and please feel free to skip it if you don't feel answering it):

Given that fears exist to prevent one from being harmed in first place, what would a scenario including an amount of fellow sceners look like in which you could see yourself safe enough staying in?

8-bit buggery:

You could do no worse than making a smaller party, such as Outline or Evoke, as your first ever demoparty. The atmosphere at both of these parties is very welcoming and sceners do understand that the majority of us are geeks; therefore "different" behaviour, providing noone is being harmed in any way is seen as being fine. Even fears such as keeping the sleeping area awake if you snore quite loudly are groundless too. Yes, we may well have a laugh about this sort of thing, but we'd be laughing with you, not at you.

I know that at Revision, even though the organizers do their best to ensure the party itself is everything but - it can feel a bit intimidating at times. When people are talking in groups and having animated discussions in whatever language they are speaking; I know it is difficult and sometimes can be seen as being rude for people to 'butt in', particularly when they are new.

At Outline in particular, bearing in mind we have quite a bit more outside space that is used as part of the party itself, alongside the small hall where everyone has their computers set up, the atmosphere is probably more welcoming still. Certainly when the weather is good as it has been, a real chilled-out atmosphere exists for the 4 days of the party.

The choice is of course yours but I hope you can make it to a party soon.

I was super awkward and scared of everyone when I started going to parties, because they were so elite and I was such a lamer. Then after a while I learned that they were lamers too.

elites are well disguised lamers deep within

Oh yeah. Impostor syndrome. Let's not even get into that one :)