Negative commentry (again?)
category: general [glöplog]
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Quote:Exactly! I strongly dislike this whole trend of pretending there is no negativity that can be adressed. If you have something on your mind: speak it. If that means using a thumb down to make your message stronger there is nothing wrong with that. If objectivity was the only goal it would make no sense.The comment/rating system loses its meaning entirely if only objectivity is the goal.
I do agree on this.
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The truely bad prods don't get any comments. In fact I would say that many times the success of a prod can be measured in the thumbs down. The most thumb upped prods often have the most thumb downs because they have made a big impact and attracted a lot of viewers and some people just have to hate whatever is popular. Of course exceptions exist.
That's a good point! E.g. I tend not to comment on prods which I feel are bad but I don't even know why (and I'm not willing to use time to analyze why I don't like the prod). However, a prod that I don't like can still be made with love and huge effort and I think it is more respectful not to comment if I can't even tell why the prod sucked.
In the end constructive criticism is good to have, however all feedback is not constructive. That just how people are and no-one can help that. Only thing we can do is to watch out for our own behavior. And in the end we should remember that all feedback is subjective.
I'd like to rephrase "negative" and say "offensive" instead.
I don't see any reasonability for the kind of comment that's just a pisstake. Yes, people *should* be able to take it. If that's your reasoning I'll also happily bitchslap your face the next time we meet.
I don't see any reasonability for the kind of comment that's just a pisstake. Yes, people *should* be able to take it. If that's your reasoning I'll also happily bitchslap your face the next time we meet.
Looking back at some of the negative comments I've received they've been really helpful in that they've helped me improve. Sometimes I've had to engage in a dialogue and figuratively drag the constructive parts of the criticism out of the commenter though, which has been a bit frustrating, and other times it's just been one word and a thumb down - not much to go by. Hurtful - maybe, but that's life, some people will always act shitty towards you just because you're there.
In general, I think, you should aim to make your comments interesting, regardless of whether they're positive or negative. (Yes, I know I can't exactly be held up as a role model for that myself!) Nobody has any reason to give a damn about what you think if you're coming of as dull and dim, so if you want your comment to actually make a difference, put some thought into it.
In general, I think, you should aim to make your comments interesting, regardless of whether they're positive or negative. (Yes, I know I can't exactly be held up as a role model for that myself!) Nobody has any reason to give a damn about what you think if you're coming of as dull and dim, so if you want your comment to actually make a difference, put some thought into it.
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If that's your reasoning I'll also happily bitchslap your face the next time we meet.
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Only thing we can do is to watch out for our own behavior.
Period.
I think this is the most important part here:
There's also a vast difference between different "negative" comments. For example, these comments are both "negative" in the context of Pouet:
and
The first being absolute worthless as critique goes whereas the second is the type of comment I wish people more people would leave.
As for the balance between thumbing something up and thumbing it down: I wish more people would take Preacher's approach which is to wish for constructive criticism in down thumbs (like my example above), rather than just reading another line of something not liking what you've made. Comparatively, I tend to leave very little text in comments on prods I like (unless they're outstanding in some particular way I feel should get extra attention).
So for myself at least, this are my comment-leaving benchmarks:
- If the prod is absolute garbage, just don't comment. Enough people will.
- If the prod is absolute garbage and it violated a rule or something, vomit as much as you'd like, all over it.
- If the prod is bad, but there seems to be at least some effort: leave constructive criticism, but don't hold back the thumb down.
- If the prod is okay, pigface and constructive criticism.
- If the prod is good, thumb up and a short piece of encouragement.
- If the prod is exceptional (or has pieces of it that are), thumb up and make a point to highlight the great bits.
And of course I've said shit about stuff on Pouet before, so spare yourself the trouble to hunt down examples of where you feel I contradict myself. :)
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I'd like you to let this sink in for a moment before you write some non-constructive crap under the free work of someone else next time. Keep in mind: it might reveal more about you outsourcing your *whatever it is* than those you critique.
There's also a vast difference between different "negative" comments. For example, these comments are both "negative" in the context of Pouet:
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Shit, hated it. Thumb down.
and
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The opening was really dull, nothing happens for over a minute and then it just repeats the same 3D scene for another two. The colors are all over the place and the objects are just rotating around the middle of the screen which is just damn lazy. Also the music didn't fit the visuals at all. Thumb down.
The first being absolute worthless as critique goes whereas the second is the type of comment I wish people more people would leave.
As for the balance between thumbing something up and thumbing it down: I wish more people would take Preacher's approach which is to wish for constructive criticism in down thumbs (like my example above), rather than just reading another line of something not liking what you've made. Comparatively, I tend to leave very little text in comments on prods I like (unless they're outstanding in some particular way I feel should get extra attention).
So for myself at least, this are my comment-leaving benchmarks:
- If the prod is absolute garbage, just don't comment. Enough people will.
- If the prod is absolute garbage and it violated a rule or something, vomit as much as you'd like, all over it.
- If the prod is bad, but there seems to be at least some effort: leave constructive criticism, but don't hold back the thumb down.
- If the prod is okay, pigface and constructive criticism.
- If the prod is good, thumb up and a short piece of encouragement.
- If the prod is exceptional (or has pieces of it that are), thumb up and make a point to highlight the great bits.
And of course I've said shit about stuff on Pouet before, so spare yourself the trouble to hunt down examples of where you feel I contradict myself. :)
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Shit, hated it. Thumb down.
cringeworthy. thumb down.
That being said, I agree with gloom :)
cringeworthy - causing feelings of embarrassment or awkwardness.
"the play's cast was excellent, but the dialogue was unforgivably cringeworthy"
"the play's cast was excellent, but the dialogue was unforgivably cringeworthy"
Aren't some of you guys like a (former) thieves that are instructing others why they shouldn't steal?
It adds really hillarious tone to the discussion IMHO ^^
Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty as charged. Do I regret? Not so much. I don't like making people sad for sure, but I was always just giving my very best opinion at the impulse of the moment using my very subjective criteria.
Moreover, to me personally: the worse thing of getting mixed positive/negative comments is not receiving comments at all. It's like your work/message is widely ignored. But of course all negative comments usually indicates your prod is just utter crap.
Also, I don't necessarily want to _all_ people to like my prods - I only want _some_ people that let's say "gets it" happy.
It adds really hillarious tone to the discussion IMHO ^^
Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty as charged. Do I regret? Not so much. I don't like making people sad for sure, but I was always just giving my very best opinion at the impulse of the moment using my very subjective criteria.
Moreover, to me personally: the worse thing of getting mixed positive/negative comments is not receiving comments at all. It's like your work/message is widely ignored. But of course all negative comments usually indicates your prod is just utter crap.
Also, I don't necessarily want to _all_ people to like my prods - I only want _some_ people that let's say "gets it" happy.
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Aren't some of you guys like a (former) thieves that are instructing others why they shouldn't steal?
I have no idea what that means. It just reads as random words put together. Thumb down.
:)
gloom: sorry for my bad english grammar / unclear statements, if this is what you mean. I actually need to work on it. Your thumb down is fully justified!
he means we're all former pirates and our comments should be 'ARRRR MATEY!' with a wooden leg as objective measure to express our grogginess!
I suspect the whole idea for the topic started with some negative comments on fr-084,
where Ronny is responding to them.
This is not the first time as well, Ronny was also responding to negative comment on fr-082 and possibly few others, but I didn't check.
I think for the future Ronny should simply ignore non-constructive comments charged with negative emotions, because it's 100% obvious to anyone what is going on there.
I also checked his "record" and he actually seem to be super nice guy, almost no negative comments over the years! So why he admits of any wrong-doing? This is confusing part for me.
where Ronny is responding to them.
This is not the first time as well, Ronny was also responding to negative comment on fr-082 and possibly few others, but I didn't check.
I think for the future Ronny should simply ignore non-constructive comments charged with negative emotions, because it's 100% obvious to anyone what is going on there.
I also checked his "record" and he actually seem to be super nice guy, almost no negative comments over the years! So why he admits of any wrong-doing? This is confusing part for me.
ronny is a nice guy. also has nuff street cred to have his say. but, pouet is pouet. there's a lot of joy, a lot of whatever and a lot of the scene equivalent of 4chan. it is understandable that newcomers need a little information leaflet before reading all the crap that comes by on pouet, but it is what it is. subjectivity is what the entire page under the screenshot and download details is about. and fuck your etiquette for self-censor. i say what i think at the moment when i see a demo, whether that's one negative word or a whole essay of what's good or bad about it, doesn't matter. it's subjective. the phrasing is subjective and in the moment. the thumbs are there just to make options quantifiable, so thumbs down are not wrong per se. imagine looking for a hotel for the next evoke and all you can see are 5 stars from the people who actually like sleeping in a shithole :D
Maali: pouet has not so much protection mechanisms for nasty internet creatures - it was demonstrated many times when nasty newcomers were literally able to "shake" the whole website.
Then there are sensitive/innocent people that may need certain level of protection for community to grow. Those are the people that are not so thick-skinned and actually gets offended or just feel sad (sometimes too easily). Of course we may say there is no place for them here, but they may provide real value for the community.
For them, all those nasty behaviours are probably very disturbing and they simply stop participating.
We shouldn't introduce any restrictions/censorship etc.., but I can actually agree with Ronny that people who put strongly negative/offending comments should simply think twice about it.
It's easy to forget how sensitive about his own effort/work a person can be and how disastrous effect a strongly negative comment may trigger: from losing self-esteem and suicidal thoughts to hatriot, social isolation and planning a revenge.
I am not kidding now - just watch american news ;P
Then there are sensitive/innocent people that may need certain level of protection for community to grow. Those are the people that are not so thick-skinned and actually gets offended or just feel sad (sometimes too easily). Of course we may say there is no place for them here, but they may provide real value for the community.
For them, all those nasty behaviours are probably very disturbing and they simply stop participating.
We shouldn't introduce any restrictions/censorship etc.., but I can actually agree with Ronny that people who put strongly negative/offending comments should simply think twice about it.
It's easy to forget how sensitive about his own effort/work a person can be and how disastrous effect a strongly negative comment may trigger: from losing self-esteem and suicidal thoughts to hatriot, social isolation and planning a revenge.
I am not kidding now - just watch american news ;P
All things considered, pouet is a rather civilized and mature place on the net. It was so much worse 15 years ago, when we had endless flamewars in the comments sections and on the BBS. Now it's like an old folks home, with trumpets on the walls. :)
Well you can't fix or prevent everything and honestly it just comes down to everyone trying to have some decency. I started a thread once about helping out fix something quite egregious with a diskmag that had partly gone to the web, so to speak, and someone thought I was wasting my time doing so. Time that, according to them, could be better spent creating awesome prods like them. or something. I forget and don't care to look it up.
Anyway, that's not really the point. What they did after was follow to my profile and write a comment that consisted solely of "..." (with pig) on a prod of mine. It's not a great prod, certainly, but if not for the thread they wouldn't have bothered, likely.
Nothing will stop random stuff like that. Just a bit of a thicker skin and doing the best you can while trying to be civil yourself is the best you can do, really. In the end I later gave the same person a twisty puzzle at Revision a year ago or whatever and there were no hard feelings. Heck I'd probably even forgotten about it already by then. :)
Anyway, that's not really the point. What they did after was follow to my profile and write a comment that consisted solely of "..." (with pig) on a prod of mine. It's not a great prod, certainly, but if not for the thread they wouldn't have bothered, likely.
Nothing will stop random stuff like that. Just a bit of a thicker skin and doing the best you can while trying to be civil yourself is the best you can do, really. In the end I later gave the same person a twisty puzzle at Revision a year ago or whatever and there were no hard feelings. Heck I'd probably even forgotten about it already by then. :)
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It's easy to forget how sensitive about his own effort/work a person can be and how disastrous effect a strongly negative comment may trigger: from losing self-esteem and suicidal thoughts to hatriot, social isolation and planning a revenge.
I am not kidding now - just watch american news ;P
Suicide from bad comment? Hahaha Americans in majority are such retarded and paranoid nation that nothing would surprise me. I do not consider them as a the authority of the reference point.
Starchaser: it's sad to hear. That is practically revenge by cyberbullying combined with cyberstalking. Unfortunately, those are pretty common practices.
In my opinion, this is the biggest argument why people should never treat online forums/comments too seriously, but to be fair, if you are a target of cyberstalker and you are not aware of it - you may really get wrong impression about "how people perceive your work" and at best just feel sad about it, while you are in fact a target of a sick person delibarately distorting reality (or virtual reality) around you.
In my opinion, this is the biggest argument why people should never treat online forums/comments too seriously, but to be fair, if you are a target of cyberstalker and you are not aware of it - you may really get wrong impression about "how people perceive your work" and at best just feel sad about it, while you are in fact a target of a sick person delibarately distorting reality (or virtual reality) around you.
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Americans in majority are such retarded and paranoid nation
That's the single most stupid thing I've ever heard (or read) . creonix , you need help .
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Quote:It's easy to forget how sensitive about his own effort/work a person can be and how disastrous effect a strongly negative comment may trigger: from losing self-esteem and suicidal thoughts to hatriot, social isolation and planning a revenge.
I am not kidding now - just watch american news ;P
Suicide from bad comment? Hahaha Americans in majority are such retarded and paranoid nation that nothing would surprise me. I do not consider them as a the authority of the reference point.
How about you go fuck yourself.
what gloom said.
also, what gargai said.
also, what gargai said.
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Suicide from bad comment? Hahaha Americans in majority are such retarded and paranoid nation
wow.
Jesus fucking christ, as if americans supposedly have the monopoly on feeling depressed and suicidal.
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How about you go fuck yourself.
no thanks
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Jesus fucking christ, as if americans supposedly have the monopoly on feeling depressed and suicidal.
no (unfortunately) but they are probably one of the leaders