Going to parties with a social phobia
category: parties [glöplog]
Gargaj: that "fraud" article is pretty good..
Nah, it's a bit over the top... Next thing you will see is people bragging on twitter how much "imposter" or "fraud" they feel today just to get more likes and followers.
@ham, @visy - Thanks guys, that's really nice to hear! Would have been cool to meet you guys as well.
Anyway, I think that this issue as a whole is not that strange. At least for me (and I guess quite a lot of other demosceners) the mindset that gets you staring at 6502 assembler for hours on end and got you into the scene is also quite often accompanied by a tendency to not be overly social.
Anyway, I think that this issue as a whole is not that strange. At least for me (and I guess quite a lot of other demosceners) the mindset that gets you staring at 6502 assembler for hours on end and got you into the scene is also quite often accompanied by a tendency to not be overly social.
tomkh: Because that's totally how people with imposter syndrome work.
[rolling eyes]
Saga Musix: obviously the one with real "imposter syndrome" will not. I felt this part was kind of obvious. Just, those game devs mentioned in the article do and brag a lot about themselves too... oops.
Saga Musix: obviously the one with real "imposter syndrome" will not. I felt this part was kind of obvious. Just, those game devs mentioned in the article do and brag a lot about themselves too... oops.
Breaking news, tomkh elected as authority on deciding validity of psychological symptoms.
Gargaj: I'm simply jealous of them releasing successful game and experiencing "imposter syndrome" later, while I am still stuck at the first part :'(
tomkh: sounds like you might suffer from an "inverse-impostor syndrome".
Also in relation to the topic at hand, it's been pretty rough to come over my social problems, and demoscene has both helped me as well as made me more aware of my issues (which I guess is a good thing ultimately). I don't know if I suffer from any social anxieties, proclaiming self-diagnoses certainly isn't my thing, but I can certainly relate to a lot of the sentiments in this thread.
I've been more directly involved with the scene since 2008, but I didn't really talk to any sceners apart from my friends until 2011-2012. I rarely have felt anxiety from the demoparty atmosphere though (not that it hasn't happened, even in recent years) like some people proclaim. Still, I have friends who can just go to people, like just acquaintances or even complete strangers just like that and strike up a conversation. I don't think I'll ever be able to do that. Even if it's person I want to meet but I don't really know them, it's a near impossible barrier for me to cross. I think I'm just "afraid" of people kind of like rimina said. Not in a physical sense or anything, but afraid of rejection or not being able to get along. This also has to do with me feeling like I'm really bad at conversations. Interacting with new people feels like it sometimes takes as much energy as moderate physical exercise, but oddly enough mainly if I'm the one who does the initiative. The stuff ps said about Finnish people is quite accurate, and I'm the personification of that. It's also not limited to face-to-face conversations, but extends to text too, so if I ever seem unresponsive via email/irc, that might be the reason.
But yeah, I'm slowly overcoming my problems, and to a large extent I can thank the scene. Even though some of you are real pieces of shit, it's been a net positive experience, and some of the best people I know are sceners. So thanks I guess.
Also in relation to the topic at hand, it's been pretty rough to come over my social problems, and demoscene has both helped me as well as made me more aware of my issues (which I guess is a good thing ultimately). I don't know if I suffer from any social anxieties, proclaiming self-diagnoses certainly isn't my thing, but I can certainly relate to a lot of the sentiments in this thread.
I've been more directly involved with the scene since 2008, but I didn't really talk to any sceners apart from my friends until 2011-2012. I rarely have felt anxiety from the demoparty atmosphere though (not that it hasn't happened, even in recent years) like some people proclaim. Still, I have friends who can just go to people, like just acquaintances or even complete strangers just like that and strike up a conversation. I don't think I'll ever be able to do that. Even if it's person I want to meet but I don't really know them, it's a near impossible barrier for me to cross. I think I'm just "afraid" of people kind of like rimina said. Not in a physical sense or anything, but afraid of rejection or not being able to get along. This also has to do with me feeling like I'm really bad at conversations. Interacting with new people feels like it sometimes takes as much energy as moderate physical exercise, but oddly enough mainly if I'm the one who does the initiative. The stuff ps said about Finnish people is quite accurate, and I'm the personification of that. It's also not limited to face-to-face conversations, but extends to text too, so if I ever seem unresponsive via email/irc, that might be the reason.
But yeah, I'm slowly overcoming my problems, and to a large extent I can thank the scene. Even though some of you are real pieces of shit, it's been a net positive experience, and some of the best people I know are sceners. So thanks I guess.
@v3nom: i'm very glad you recognize the theme, I wasn't sure people will get it when I did it :D
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I dread the moments until I arrive at the event though. Once I'm there and see people and say hello, the anxiety slowly fades.
DFox, that´s just because your anxious of your annual encounter with the Saarbrooklyn fire brigade ;D
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This is quite a interesting as I'm scared to visit parties because of crowds of unknown people and when I overcome myself (which is very hard) and go there, I like to be there with my friendly friendly friends, but I'm still kinda afraid of other people. Weird. Or normal.
1) Social phobia XOR parties except when you can bear it.
2) It's totally OK to not go to parties, as in don't feel you have to, to be normal. I prefer small parties cos it's cozier. Going back to Revision this year, but that's mostly about plane tickets and hotel costs vs. do I have a release. I'm sure someone can give me an equation where the variable prize equals zero :)
3) It's totally OK to go to parties. You can tell by the response to this thread that we're a lovable bunch. You should have been there when teens discovered alcohol :) That's not saying you haven't. But anyway :)
4) I hear some social phobic sceners scene at the hotel until saturday night, haha :D
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Breaking news, tomkh elected as authority on deciding validity of psychological symptoms.
Using ones own brains is just healthy.
Taking the side of apparent authority is not.
"Authority" or consensus? You shouldn't cherrypick reality.
My personal opinion is that I have hard time believing these game devs has real syndrome after looking closer at their profiles. Moreover, if they really feel so low (or "blown away") in the presence of those "big guys" (game dev celebrities), then it kind of suggest that they do exaggerate their greatness and simply feel overwhelmed, because they dream to become one of them in the future. Maybe that's why they are so obsessed about making their games irrationally original to well...shine more in the community and become a legend one day just like their gurus. Then, reality is harsh and they don't have as much followers as say Notch, so they feel frustration and fall into this convoluted logic that maybe its because they are not talented/competent enough, but ironically they just didn't have enough luck or are trying too hard (indie game dev is multi-disciplinary field, you really have to be great designer, artist, coder etc...all in one, so for sure they will never be number one in everything!). So here we go, it might be totally up-side down, but instead they self-diagnose "imposter syndrome". Now, as many self-diagnosis go, they are probably wrong. Also asking more people if they self-diagnose themselves with similar syndrome doesn't really proof anything.
I hope you follow my logic here, it might be a bit chaotic, but as inverse-imposter I suspect their logic has even more fallacies and gaps.
I hope you follow my logic here, it might be a bit chaotic, but as inverse-imposter I suspect their logic has even more fallacies and gaps.
but it's not a game dev specific problem. i also found it awkward in the beginning of my academic career when you (have to) attend an academic conference and 'you're just a PhD student' among several professors there with decades of experience in that particular field of research. took me a while to realize the 'they also started like that', which is a comforting factor but it takes a while to discover your own place in such an overwhelming system :)
yeah, I've had this at work in the gamedev, iOS/Android app programming, the demoscene, movie fanscenes, reddit, anything really. any place where there's new people to deal with, pre-existing expectations and stereotypes already firmly in place. It exists anywhere I go, because the source of the problem for me lies in bad self-esteem for the most part.
Recognizing that makes it a lot easier to avoid feeling terrible and scared and lost, at least for me.
Recognizing that makes it a lot easier to avoid feeling terrible and scared and lost, at least for me.
Maali: feeling overwhelmed is totally understandable, yet it is not "imposter syndrome".
There is one syndrome people do seem to have these days: focusing too much on themselves, their individuality, originality etc... It is actually unfair to all honest and humble people that don't crave for artificial fame so much, but do want to contribute positively to the society. That's why I am saying it's all a bit "over the top".
There is one syndrome people do seem to have these days: focusing too much on themselves, their individuality, originality etc... It is actually unfair to all honest and humble people that don't crave for artificial fame so much, but do want to contribute positively to the society. That's why I am saying it's all a bit "over the top".
Well may be we could clode this thread by saying: "this is all in the head"... Could we ?
tomkh: how did looking at people's profiles help you to an opinion about their emotional state? Because they sounded successful and confident, they must feel that way? That would be kind of the definition of "Impostor Syndrome", as I understand it: A huge difference between how you see yourself (shit) and how you are seen by others (great). Also, while caution about self-diagnosis is appropriate, whenever you read something and go "oh wow, yes exactly, this! I'm not the only one" you have learned something. Please don't tell people that what they feel isn't real: almost everyone who is not neurotypical got this kind of shit all the time during their childhood and adolescence in some form or other and the inner voice that goes "nah, it's not my slightly different brain chemistry or the result of some childhood situation, I'm just lazy/stupid/boring or a horrible person in some other way and I should just get my shit together" is still strong from those times. There's no need to reinforce that. Just give people the benefit of the doubt, please?
Personally I never ever talk to anyone who doesn't talk to me first (because I'm boring and annoying!). I forced myself to go to the first two or three parties, and only those that someone I know from elsewhere was already attending. When standing in a group with a few people of whom I knew some subset, at some point there would be the friendly question "Hi, who are you?", which registered in my brain as "And now the time to judge you has come, please justify your existence." I'd just mumble my name, often so quiet that one of the others had to repeat it and hope the conversation would continue quickly. After I made my first 4K (and then some other prods), in the same situation sometimes people would say "He made <this>" and the asking person would go "Oh, that was you, nice." or "Oh, didn't see that, but nice.", which felt way better and maybe helped people remember me. At that point the amount of people I knew started to grow quickly and now everything is fine basically (I still don't start conversations, but well, I don't complain), but I still hate this meritocracy: In the end I really did have to "justify my existence" by making something: Make something, and people talk to you. No one is to blame, everyone was friendly and non-judging - that was just the overall effect it had on the social dynamic. In the end, I probably owe the fact that I didn't stop going to parties to the people who helped me and my brother with our prod because the two guys I knew were sitting there. Most of whom are now my demogroup. I love you guys.
Personally I never ever talk to anyone who doesn't talk to me first (because I'm boring and annoying!). I forced myself to go to the first two or three parties, and only those that someone I know from elsewhere was already attending. When standing in a group with a few people of whom I knew some subset, at some point there would be the friendly question "Hi, who are you?", which registered in my brain as "And now the time to judge you has come, please justify your existence." I'd just mumble my name, often so quiet that one of the others had to repeat it and hope the conversation would continue quickly. After I made my first 4K (and then some other prods), in the same situation sometimes people would say "He made <this>" and the asking person would go "Oh, that was you, nice." or "Oh, didn't see that, but nice.", which felt way better and maybe helped people remember me. At that point the amount of people I knew started to grow quickly and now everything is fine basically (I still don't start conversations, but well, I don't complain), but I still hate this meritocracy: In the end I really did have to "justify my existence" by making something: Make something, and people talk to you. No one is to blame, everyone was friendly and non-judging - that was just the overall effect it had on the social dynamic. In the end, I probably owe the fact that I didn't stop going to parties to the people who helped me and my brother with our prod because the two guys I knew were sitting there. Most of whom are now my demogroup. I love you guys.
*close
cupe: what they feel is real, no doubt, I just suspect there might be a different psychological reason/syndrome/phenomena behind it, that's all. But to be fair I play "homegrown" psychologist over here, exactly as they do (with self-diagnosis etc...). Things might be more complicated and I would just be cautious to draw conclusions too quickly.
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I still hate this meritocracy: In the end I really did have to "justify my existence" by making something: Make something, and people talk to you.
On the flipside though, isn't that a very reasonable motivation to step above the consumer crowd and make something? (I know it was for me.)
time for some Radiohead - Creep :D
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On the flipside though, isn't that a very reasonable motivation to step above the consumer crowd and make something? (I know it was for me.)
It may be a motivation that works, but is it a good one? I keep asking myself If I spend those 20 hours a week just to impress people, which would be a bit sad. I guess it's a mixture of many things for me though, and if addiction to recognition as an antidote to anxiety is the push that I need to get going, then I'll take it, yes.