pouët.net

I'm too busy with work right now to contribute anything more than opening this thread, but there are things that people obviously feel that need to be said, and that the right time and place for that isn't the Revision thread.

So there.

One of the things thrown in the Revision thread was a Code of Conduct and I'm not sure how I feel about that. On one hand it feels redundant, on the other hand apparently it isn't but a paragraph of text probably won't change that either.

maybe Adok could develop a pre-party EQ test so potential sexual predators can go in a fenced area on the left of the hall, the ones prone for excessive substance abuse in the fenced area on the right of the hall and the remaining modern men are free to roam the center parts!

The real issue is that people try to adress issues online and hope to solve behaviour they dont like far away from were it actually takes place.

Why are you so afraid of discussion?

Ragnarok: So you think "must be willing to confront loud aggressive drunk people in person" should be one of the requirements for being part of our community?

the fuck is happening

People are still not able to treat other people as people.

Now I'm even MORE sorry I missed Revision this year!

I am not afraid of discussion, i am bored and annoyed by the means suggested to find a solution.
I have to prefice that although i dont see an issue i would be happy to talk to you about it, because i might overlook something.
however, i would like to do that in person. and i dont see the point in discussing this online because it will only serve the purpose for channeling ones own self rightiousness and will get lost in discussing meaningless details. and i say that because i have seen it happening oh so many times before.
additionally i think a lot of issues could be solved with common sense and by acknowledging that there *are* assholes in the scene. and you shouldnt hang out with them. nor should you hang out with people who cannot handle their liqour.
I stay away from them and i am having a great time.
I am all in for trolling and annoying people. but believe it or not, if someone would behave maliciously towards other people or the partyplace i would be the first one to kick this person out.

How about: A discussion online means that more people will read it. Which causes awareness about what some people might find a problem. And with some luck, someone will read, think, and behave differently next time. At least if this wasn't Pouet.

Oh and Maali: Troll all you want, 20 years as a girl in the demoscene has shown me that yes, sexist idiots exist. It's way better nowadays though, most people grew up (unless you go to Datastorm and encounter a girl that want to interview you about being a girl in the demoscene (seriously, argh), and 64-sceners who seemingly lived under a rock the last 15 years and can't get over the fact that you're female).

Ragnarok, but sometimes you can't tell in advance who the assholes are. And sometimes they come and find you even if you avoid them.

I agree it's useless to discuss things on the Internet unless people also tackle them in real life. I do wish people did more of just that. People don't, though, because they'd rather not rock the boat. This may be a Finnish thing, but I've heard the most flabbergasting things explained away with "well, he/she/I was drunk".

On the contrary, I think for all its notoriousness - if people are actually starting to discuss things on Pouet, it's almost always surprisingly productive :)

And sometimes you can't choose. See Gargaj's "someone puked on me while sleeping" incident. Is he supposed to use a time machine now and go sleep somewhere else? Same if someone decides to throw up next to you while watching compos. Not that I have an ultimate solution but what's wrong with pointing out that there are (way too many) people who obviously don't know their limits and apparently don't even give a fuck about it, since they keep doing this every year? "Call the infodesk" surely isn't the solution since I'm pretty sure they are not super happy about cleaning up someone else's puke stains either.

I think we should do everything what we can do to attract more sensitive people to the demoscene, on both male and female side. I mean guys, I know we are mostly emotionally washed out jerks that enjoy teasing someone that is buying pop-culture too much to tears, but it's just ain't right - we are here for art and demos I believe, not to overreact everyday-life stress (ok, to an extent).
Maybe Assembly model is not so bad idea to have Boozembly-like thing going on a side, where everything is possible (use your wildest imagination), but party-place is safe, just maybe soft-alcohols.

I just want to bring Gargaj's wonderfull expression into this debate: "And I don't just mean someone sinewaving through the toilet tunnel" ... sinewaving through the tunnel. I dunno why, but I found that hysterically funny :D

The issue with "common sense" is that in the demoparty-context it gets warped, see Gasman's issue. If you're in an environment where something is happening that you're not used to, and you have no reference on whether that's normal or not, you can't just apply standard logic.

"Common sense" can be pretty contrary to demoparty traditions (i.e. "nah, he's fine")

I do not like to repeat myself. First of all, it is the fucking job of an Orga to clean that shit up and the give the person who caused it shit back. When i was an orga at breakpoint, i hated it - you are right. but i was more than happy to help out people so the party could go on smoothly.
There also was this jerk who pissed on a poor guy in a sleeping bag and made a lot of homophoic remarks. Once we got him i made sure that this person would feel very bad.
I also feel sorry for gargaj that someone puked on him in his sleep. such utterly respectless behaviour is intolerable.
And yes, i agree. you cannot always tell in advance who the assholes are. but common sense helps. and walking away, too.
and most of all - learn to deal with it because noone else will do that for you. if you dont, then there will be always assholes and you will be whining.
Also i *strongly* believe the more you whining people actually speak up, the lesser the amount of whackos will be. leading by example. everything else is just putting the workload on others

If you call this "whining", than it seems that you are not willing to discuss the whole issue at all.

What's the difference between "speaking up" and "whining"? Perhaps people don't speak up exactly because they don't want to seem whiny.

When I read this topic, I start to wonder if our stuff at Revision'15 have not been stolen by some demoscener with a 'social problems' :)

This bit, we agree on. So let's get some measures in place so that people feel comfortable speaking up. As Gargaj says, relying on "common sense" to solve things is not enough.

Demoparty culture is weird and fucked up, and getting people to recognise this when they're already indoctrinated into the clique is like getting fish to recognise the concept of water.

It's "common sense" that the organisers are there to help out with any problems, oh except that guy in the orga t-shirt is boozing away and yelling HALLO WAS with the rest of them.

It's "common sense" that we don't tolerate sexual harassment, oh except the bigscreen is showing softcore porn and there's a sponsor banner over there with a picture of a guy in bed with two half-naked women. (sidenote: if I'm not mistaken, the banner was gone this year. I don't know if that had anything to do with the present subject, but either way: good.)

(fun fact: that sponsor banner, if we talk about the guy in bed with 6 females, was concepted, designed and executed exclusively by women. All of them obviously brainwashed victims of the patriarchy)

Just throw the worst ones out (would have maybe included myself couple of times) and give security guys a mugshot and say better luck tomorrow. That's what they do in bars anyway. In any case i hope this isnt one of those 1% spoils the fun for 99%.

@gasman
It is the Viprinet Banner that you talk about? The picture for that is most likely done by fashion?
The HALLO WAS was repeatedly played by sobec (rip). It is common sense to not talk bad about those who passed away. I was most likely amongst the orgas joining in as well. What's wrong about having fun as an orga as well? You think they just do all the heavy work for others that just have a nice brain wank about political correctness? I can have that at work, but for sure not in my sparetime and when i am in the so much open minded scene. Suddenly tolerance vanishes and things can't be hardline enough? It's called demoparty, and not demodinner where it is all about good manners.