pouët.net

i dont think a printed book about the demoscene is pointed towards demosceners only, but the general public as well. for those who are curious about what it is or may have heard the term before or didnt really get a grasp around it could perhaps prefer a printed book about it. also its a matter of taste and style.

ham, you're quite wrong about outsides not being interested in the demoscene. for example at the demowall-event held during the night of the arts he had really huge audience of people who came to see the event because they were interested in demos even though they were not part of the scene or hadnt even seen any demos before. there's definitely some interest in the general public. and also for example in the art world there's quite a few people who've shown interest.

hatikvah, anyone who thinks that it's unjustified for a person to try to get some payment for writing a book is a fucking retard. you want a free book about the demoscene? go write one yourself. that of course would require you to be able to create anything else than lame pouet posts, which i frankly don't think you're capable of.

on outsiders re: lots of folks

More than 17 people showed up (you could only fit that many) for the presentation on the demoscene at the World Science Fiction Convention in Montréal, and 12 for the demoshow in the same place and hour later.

No special publicity. Massssssive venue, us off at the end.

I think that says something, anyhow. Anytime I can set up a demoshow at an sf convention and can get someone cool like Barzoule to present it I will. \m/

"hatikvah, anyone who thinks that it's unjustified for a person to try to get some payment for writing a book is a fucking retard. you want a free book about the demoscene? go write one yourself. that of course would require you to be able to create anything else than lame pouet posts, which i frankly don't think you're capable of."

I guess this only proves how much time you actually put into your own productions. I am not saying i'm into producing demoscene content anymore but I do have a very good understanding of how much time there is in a bigger demoscene production. Saying it takes much more effort to write a book is just pure nonsense. It's just different people, most developers are quite horrible at writing pretty much anything.

Do I rate a book about the demoscene above a good demo? No. Do we pay for demos?

there's a big difference between a book and a demo.

Hatikvah, I was probably working on demos before you were born, so pls feel to write a book about them and rip me off.

Regarding the outsiders/insiders issue: I think it makes sense to release and sell an eBook if you have released a print version before that. Printed book has an "aura" that you can carry on with the eBook, if you know what I mean. Asking money for an eBook release only would not make sense to me either.

That "aura" is the thing why I believe why outsiders would still prefer finding and paying for the eBook, it feels more special (which is subjective naturally). But I know from experience that this is true to people working for the press, somewone writing a PhD paper or Thesis or an art critic or curator. They still prefer ink over wiki for some reason. The print book sold over 1000 copies to outsiders and insider alike.

If any curator for example gets interested after reading the book and wants to build an exhibition together with local sceners, my job is done. I don't care about the little money this could bring in, but want the scene to feel special enough to be sold as a(n) (e)book.

@nosfe: Of course there are outsiders that could be truly interested and not only a little bit curious about the demoscene. Perhaps you've found more of those outsiders than me. I hope, really, that you're right and I'm wrong.



I bet that 80% of the readers are demosceners, or demowatchers for a long time, instead of outsiders. But I could be wrong, of course.

@Rawer: Hatikvah is a deceptitroll, enemy of the autobooks, he is surely following the commands of Megatroll. So relax. Anyway, you did a great job with your book. It feels good to have books about demos next to other computer-related books in my library.

No, you're just very eager to point out that you will hunt down anyone who rips and uploads a pdf. After all you are just the blessed demoscener who can write a book. Since afterall, a book should be paid for since its not just a crappy demoscene release that you know all about.

rydi: Yes. Some development time should be paid for and some not. Like making ansis or create demoscene graphics should always be free.

My $0.02: A book is worth paying for. If there were reprints, I'd gladly buy one.

The book is five years old and all the hard copies are out of print, so your ROI has been met -- why charge $10 for the ebook?

When all our copies of MindCandy V1 are exhausted -- and that day is coming soon -- we plan on releasing both sides as .ISOs under creative commons free for everyone. We already released the documentary ("Demographics") under CC a while ago (look for it on archive.org). I don't see the point of trying to charge for an electronic version of a physical product that isn't available any more.

Unless you plan on reprinting more books with the ebook profits, but I haven't seen that intention posted anywhere.

i'm sorry pal but really: selling 5 years old ebook to the demoscene after the printed stock is successfully sold out and even watermarking it is apparently ridiculous if not somewhat unethical.

why not giving it away and moving on to the next project? :)

trixter: its ok. mindcandy has already been released as torrent a long time ago. so no hurry :)

what.

Man, this seems to be Pouet's place of the hour for lame attempts at trolling. I for one wouldn't mind paying for the ebook if I didn't have the original already on my shelves. It's a good piece of work, and the scene history part in it was actually well written and factually correct. Unlike certain other piles of poorly written guesswork and misinformation..

Break has leading. everyone else can GTFO.

too bad i missed the actual book. Won't probably buy the ebook, since i like my books as, well, books.

Confused: "Aura" as in art theory (e.g. Walter Benjamin).

http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm (don't mind the the source :)

Trixter, yes we are collecting money with the eBook, don't know yet what for. I honestly don't want to promise anything, getting too old and lazy with too many kids :). Might be the stripper for Boozembly or another exhibition or a st-01/02 concert. I think we have a proven track record of coming up with different scene projects for common good involving real costs - and lots of motivated free hands which is nice. At least I'll donate to scenemusic.eu which keeps me sane during the working days.

Should we make a book, it would not be the second print, but revisited edition. A critical approach including various articles from poeple with art and digital media background. It would be nice to see such outsiders writing about the demoscene in the digital media art context.

That was the whole idea about our book, not to write any history, but see how it would fit in the media art context. I think scene deserves at lot more attention in the art world than just our first little "(e)pamphlet". I hope that I haven't given any wrong ideas about trying to do anything more than that. I'll stick with the art approach and leave the history writing, technical stuff, art packs, biographies etc to the others who know better. Not saying that I know anything about art either :)

Wish I had drank less in the copy parties in the 80s and released more stuff back then. Would have more credit while trying to know better :).

yeah a revisited edition would definitely be better than just a 2nd print.

I think that the demoscene-issue on the mustekala web magazine was nice because there was also texts from 'outsiders', if only from kari & jarkko. It really would be good to have a book that would discuss the similarities of demoscene and the media arts of today.

@Hatikvah: I know. But this time it will be with our consent ;-D

I LOL'd when I saw the first SVCD distros of MC1 in 2002. **Five** SVCDs and the quality was still shit. MC2 was also uncompressible (seriously, try to run it through DVD Shrink, you'll get a surprise).

I won't be pulling those kinds of tricks for MC3 though because I have a lot less free time and can't spent weeks (months!) tweaking the compression.

@Rawer: Well, it's all good if it goes back into the scene, I guess. It just feels odd to pay for an electronic version of something that is out of print. I'd much rather have the actual print so guests could admire the wonderful artwork when visiting Trixter's house (that's where tomcat's book is at, on the coffee table in the living room).

Just my $0.02.

Any working link to eBook, please?

AFAIK it's not been possible to purchase the ebook in years.

I do have the physical book, drop me an email if there's something in particular that you're interested in.

That is a shame. Wish I would have bought it when I had the chance.
So even the e-book is out of print?

There seems to be a low-quality preview version online.

They ran out of e-ink