Moroder's video - what the hell is that
category: general [glöplog]
Navis, please do carefully use the angry pouet lynchmob as a weapon. We have plenty of youtube comments and legal support cash to spare.
thank you skrebbel. I was wondering if it is a better idea to find legal representation through here- paying for it is not an issue, but rather finding the right person with the rifht knowledge/sensitivities who would, to start with, listen to my story and then produce a letter to take things further.
I believe netpoet is most likely to be that person, or know someone else who is.
Surely some people here have experience with working with a lawyer on this kind of matters and can put ASD folks in contact with someone.
I think when you come up with a lawyer, they will just delete the video and you see nothing...
Behind that so called "Superstars" is actually nothing... My Tip: Don't waste your money for lawyers etc... You can win! That's true... But you can also lose and wait years for success!
Behind that so called "Superstars" is actually nothing... My Tip: Don't waste your money for lawyers etc... You can win! That's true... But you can also lose and wait years for success!
Whoa, didn't hear about this until now. Really pisses me off!
crap, i also just saw it hope its get resolved
This is not new: copying happens all the time.
1- Do you know the tablet called Nexus 7 by Google, isn't the name / brand a copy of Nexus 7 demo name by Andromeda?
2- Do you remember how you've learned to speak and write? Isn't it by copying your parents and your teacher examples on the black / digital board?
3- Do you remember the demoscene source of graphics in the 90's? Isn't it copying coming from Marvel's (look at this Phenomena demo with a graphist nicknamed Terminator copying Batman cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s05h4LxlZbQ#t=214), lots of Amiga and Atari ST demos with Heroic Fantasy pictures directly copied from Boris Vallejo (cf https://www.google.ch/search?q=Boris+Vallejo), some pictures on c64 demos coming from mainstream album discs, movies, ... cf https://www.google.ch/search?q=c64+demo+graphics Mainly from USA culture in fact.
4- Do you remember the no! demo on DOS with a bart simpson picture displayed into ? cf http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=1159
Boost by doomsday with lego inside cf http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=6485
5- Do you remember where the chip musics in old demo and intros came from? Not ripped from games? cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nwc9nmcK3I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCE8ONo8_IM
6- Do you remember where the samples in MOD files come from initially? Not games for a part? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eofshtmMVMQ
and not from Karsten Obarsky samples and SoundTracker cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sRPtv_hQ8E ?
All copyrighten materials, used illegally inside DemoScene productions and available free of charge from Pouet and stored on Scene.org servers.
6- Is all this http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?type%5B%5D=cracktro&platform%5B%5D=Atari+ST&page=1 legal?
And not have implication on copyright of third parties?
Have it no link with illegally modified piece of bits called a "crack"? ...
7- Is Kb or any scene musician who play real music haven't learnt music by rehearsing very famous and popular musician artwork such as Mozard, Chopin, ...
8- Are any demoscene graphician not learnt his art by copying artwork made by somebody else first?
9- Are any coders solving equation or making any code by not copying method from other mathematicians or coders?
Haven't you ever used a debugger to look at how the code of a well known coder works?
Not ripped / copy pasted any source code from elsewhere?
10- Is the white bar loader present in many demos on PC not a copy of the iPod loader?
The DemoScene copy others, others copy the DemoScene, that's what happens when you don't copyright and when you live in the digital age: copy pasting is just faster now but it has always been there (the printer has been made to copy paste the bible everywhere, TV does the same with video, radio the same with audio, newspapers with text, …)
Life is about copying: RNA copy DNA using RNA polymerase enzyme, cells are copy of other cells.
Don't you get your raw material to build your body from the food you eat?
Aren't this food made of parts from other living beings around you such as plants, animals?
Where the raw materials used for making the screen you watch and the keyboard you use come from?
Are they not made from oil taken more or less illegaly from Arab countries by force?
*** Navis, the link provided on the first page isn't working anymore so what? Strike a deal with the maker of the video, that's the best option. ***
1- Do you know the tablet called Nexus 7 by Google, isn't the name / brand a copy of Nexus 7 demo name by Andromeda?
2- Do you remember how you've learned to speak and write? Isn't it by copying your parents and your teacher examples on the black / digital board?
3- Do you remember the demoscene source of graphics in the 90's? Isn't it copying coming from Marvel's (look at this Phenomena demo with a graphist nicknamed Terminator copying Batman cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s05h4LxlZbQ#t=214), lots of Amiga and Atari ST demos with Heroic Fantasy pictures directly copied from Boris Vallejo (cf https://www.google.ch/search?q=Boris+Vallejo), some pictures on c64 demos coming from mainstream album discs, movies, ... cf https://www.google.ch/search?q=c64+demo+graphics Mainly from USA culture in fact.
4- Do you remember the no! demo on DOS with a bart simpson picture displayed into ? cf http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=1159
Boost by doomsday with lego inside cf http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=6485
5- Do you remember where the chip musics in old demo and intros came from? Not ripped from games? cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nwc9nmcK3I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCE8ONo8_IM
6- Do you remember where the samples in MOD files come from initially? Not games for a part? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eofshtmMVMQ
and not from Karsten Obarsky samples and SoundTracker cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sRPtv_hQ8E ?
All copyrighten materials, used illegally inside DemoScene productions and available free of charge from Pouet and stored on Scene.org servers.
6- Is all this http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?type%5B%5D=cracktro&platform%5B%5D=Atari+ST&page=1 legal?
And not have implication on copyright of third parties?
Have it no link with illegally modified piece of bits called a "crack"? ...
7- Is Kb or any scene musician who play real music haven't learnt music by rehearsing very famous and popular musician artwork such as Mozard, Chopin, ...
8- Are any demoscene graphician not learnt his art by copying artwork made by somebody else first?
9- Are any coders solving equation or making any code by not copying method from other mathematicians or coders?
Haven't you ever used a debugger to look at how the code of a well known coder works?
Not ripped / copy pasted any source code from elsewhere?
10- Is the white bar loader present in many demos on PC not a copy of the iPod loader?
The DemoScene copy others, others copy the DemoScene, that's what happens when you don't copyright and when you live in the digital age: copy pasting is just faster now but it has always been there (the printer has been made to copy paste the bible everywhere, TV does the same with video, radio the same with audio, newspapers with text, …)
Life is about copying: RNA copy DNA using RNA polymerase enzyme, cells are copy of other cells.
Don't you get your raw material to build your body from the food you eat?
Aren't this food made of parts from other living beings around you such as plants, animals?
Where the raw materials used for making the screen you watch and the keyboard you use come from?
Are they not made from oil taken more or less illegaly from Arab countries by force?
*** Navis, the link provided on the first page isn't working anymore so what? Strike a deal with the maker of the video, that's the best option. ***
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Where the raw materials used for making the screen you watch and the keyboard you use come from?
Are they not made from oil taken more or less illegaly from Arab countries by force?
PROFIT!
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Strike a deal with the maker of the video, that's the best option
The whole point was that they didn't feel the need to "strike a deal" in the first place. And that the best option for them is to keep silent and pay nothing. :P
Dear God,
Obviously because some 80s and 90s scene folk used some (bloody obvious if you listened to 80s music at all) heavy metal band artwork as inspiration to pixel, sometimes with a fecking joystick by hand, one dot at a time, for days and days, for free, as KIDS when they prob should have been doing their homework: this justifies a team of grown up people xeroxing an >entire< production (as a video, with barely any changes, prob done in around 2mins) and re-branding it as their own to make a profit?!?
I love that when this happens people point out that copying happens all the time. No it does not, this sort of wholesale ripping does not happen "all the time", in art or other media: there is a huge difference between inspiration, tribute (for example what we do when we cover a song), re-creation (on media far simpler than the original piece) and barefaced theft /o\
^ Just thought I should point that out, much love <3
Cheers,
Ne7
PS - love the nick, works well in this context.
Obviously because some 80s and 90s scene folk used some (bloody obvious if you listened to 80s music at all) heavy metal band artwork as inspiration to pixel, sometimes with a fecking joystick by hand, one dot at a time, for days and days, for free, as KIDS when they prob should have been doing their homework: this justifies a team of grown up people xeroxing an >entire< production (as a video, with barely any changes, prob done in around 2mins) and re-branding it as their own to make a profit?!?
I love that when this happens people point out that copying happens all the time. No it does not, this sort of wholesale ripping does not happen "all the time", in art or other media: there is a huge difference between inspiration, tribute (for example what we do when we cover a song), re-creation (on media far simpler than the original piece) and barefaced theft /o\
^ Just thought I should point that out, much love <3
Cheers,
Ne7
PS - love the nick, works well in this context.
Navis as far as I can see your analogy with car doesn't quite show in how unfair situation you are - they didn't borrow the car, they're still driving it - that video with Spin is still everywhere as an official video for Moroder's piece.
If there's no progress, not to say that if there's regression, you certainly should go public IMO.
And I would go legal. It will take years and lots of money but I think it should be done. Not only for your deserved profit but also for general justice. It's amoral to let the thieves steal, especially when the thief is so much bigger than the victim.
Hopefully you can count on support of the scene. You certainly have my donation for such a cause.
I for example, had a car crash at the end of 2011. In hospital they missed my broken vertebral column, which came out after almost 2 years after I made an RTG due to increasing pains. Now having no proof that the crash caused it, I have a hard time getting my money from assurance of perpetrator of the crash. It already took 4 years, a couple of lawyers, and quite some money and it's still not over yet...
If there's no progress, not to say that if there's regression, you certainly should go public IMO.
And I would go legal. It will take years and lots of money but I think it should be done. Not only for your deserved profit but also for general justice. It's amoral to let the thieves steal, especially when the thief is so much bigger than the victim.
Hopefully you can count on support of the scene. You certainly have my donation for such a cause.
I for example, had a car crash at the end of 2011. In hospital they missed my broken vertebral column, which came out after almost 2 years after I made an RTG due to increasing pains. Now having no proof that the crash caused it, I have a hard time getting my money from assurance of perpetrator of the crash. It already took 4 years, a couple of lawyers, and quite some money and it's still not over yet...
I would contact sites like Kotaku etc with both, the original video and the new one and let the shitstorm do its thang!!!!
G.O.D = new incarnation of EP?
There is strong evidence that GOD = EP.
Not that I care too much... Back to topic!
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thank you skrebbel. I was wondering if it is a better idea to find legal representation through here- paying for it is not an issue
Create a kickstarter project for it. I'd back that! :)
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The DemoScene copy others, others copy the DemoScene, that's what happens when you don't copyright and when you live in the digital age
The difference here is that the demoscene is non-profit, and its use of copyrighted materials falls under 'fair use' laws in most countries.
Moroder's video however is a commercial, promotional video. It is used with the explicit goal to make a profit. In that case, the rights management takes on a completely different legal role.
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Moroder's video however is a commercial, promotional video. It is used with the explicit goal to make a profit. In that case, the rights management takes on a completely different legal role.
That means, that we can use cracked Software until we don't make profit with our music?
Daxx;
That does not equate dude. As a media pro I'd be absolutely ashamed to put my name to/sell on something stolen from someone else (especially a fellow creative) but I digress; it's pretty simple really - if you >sell< something someone else has made then pay the original creators for their time and skills...
That does not equate dude. As a media pro I'd be absolutely ashamed to put my name to/sell on something stolen from someone else (especially a fellow creative) but I digress; it's pretty simple really - if you >sell< something someone else has made then pay the original creators for their time and skills...
ne7... I fully understand the anger of navis...
But if i read right, amusic gave permission to use it?
Finally ASD never created this demo to earn something with it. They did it for free. Now, when someone with money ripped it, they want money for it... See it from the view of a judge. I'm not 100% sure if a judge will see it of the point of Navis.
I also hope, that Navis can get some compensation... But i'm not that sure...
Anyway... Good Luck to Navis.
PS: i equate it... When i use something non-profit, means i also can use cracked software. :)
But if i read right, amusic gave permission to use it?
Finally ASD never created this demo to earn something with it. They did it for free. Now, when someone with money ripped it, they want money for it... See it from the view of a judge. I'm not 100% sure if a judge will see it of the point of Navis.
I also hope, that Navis can get some compensation... But i'm not that sure...
Anyway... Good Luck to Navis.
PS: i equate it... When i use something non-profit, means i also can use cracked software. :)
Dude, you're missing the point. ASD made a demo for assembly, amusic gave permission for the footage to be used as vj footage for Moroder's tour, now Sony thought that Moroder's return through daft punk could be commercially viable but have so little trust in it they don't want to spend any money on making a music video for him, so they lifted some of the tour vj footage and called it a day (probably thinking the footage was bought and payed for).
Now they guys who made the footage are unhappy, but for sony the whole thing is probably a loss, so if they can leave it linger long enough for the whole thing to be forgotten, the better it is for them. Shitty position for navis and co. to be in though.
Now they guys who made the footage are unhappy, but for sony the whole thing is probably a loss, so if they can leave it linger long enough for the whole thing to be forgotten, the better it is for them. Shitty position for navis and co. to be in though.
Navis,
Ask for a deal, don't go the legal way (but threaten to) because it will be costly for both parts: the lawyers will make it the longest possible to get as much money as they can from both you and Moroder (who is maybe not even aware from who has made the clip really).
And it'll be costly not only on the money side: you'll have to pay in term of time and stress and the money at the end will not refund you that.
At the moment, if I were you, I would take it easy and fun: after all, the Moroder video team has found out that your video / demo was better than what they could produce themselves. In it's way it's a positive thing, isn't it? That means you went pro, without knowing a shit about the industry :)
CONGRATULATIONS
Find a friend who is Sollicitor / Barrister and ask him to write a letter for you to Moroder, then send it to Moroder by post and put it online for all to see, then go to the Moroder's facebook page showing the letter to his fans. Clinch a deal with your legal friend, it'll be far easier than you think and less costly.
Moroder's website:
http://www.giorgiomoroder.com/
-> use the contact form to raise your case with a link to your demo
Moroder's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/GiorgioMoroderOfficial
-> Once the 'legal' letter will be done, let all sceners go there with the link to the letter and complain about the video being a rip of your demo and ask for a deal. The fans of Moroder, will get angry and that couldn't be greater for you to win: the fans are those who pay Moroder, if they are angry, the Moroder machine will go backward and pay, a lot :) That's politics and that's what works.
Use the PR power.
Ask for a deal, don't go the legal way (but threaten to) because it will be costly for both parts: the lawyers will make it the longest possible to get as much money as they can from both you and Moroder (who is maybe not even aware from who has made the clip really).
And it'll be costly not only on the money side: you'll have to pay in term of time and stress and the money at the end will not refund you that.
At the moment, if I were you, I would take it easy and fun: after all, the Moroder video team has found out that your video / demo was better than what they could produce themselves. In it's way it's a positive thing, isn't it? That means you went pro, without knowing a shit about the industry :)
CONGRATULATIONS
Find a friend who is Sollicitor / Barrister and ask him to write a letter for you to Moroder, then send it to Moroder by post and put it online for all to see, then go to the Moroder's facebook page showing the letter to his fans. Clinch a deal with your legal friend, it'll be far easier than you think and less costly.
Moroder's website:
http://www.giorgiomoroder.com/
-> use the contact form to raise your case with a link to your demo
Moroder's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/GiorgioMoroderOfficial
-> Once the 'legal' letter will be done, let all sceners go there with the link to the letter and complain about the video being a rip of your demo and ask for a deal. The fans of Moroder, will get angry and that couldn't be greater for you to win: the fans are those who pay Moroder, if they are angry, the Moroder machine will go backward and pay, a lot :) That's politics and that's what works.
Use the PR power.
@GOD: with a god like you, everyone not as dumb as a donut will turn atheist instantly
@daXX: it depends - according to German law it would be a clear violation of both the protection of artistic work as well as its redistribution.
Things might differ remarkably in the US, though - e.g., there is no non-transferable Urheberrecht independent of the copyright there =(
Thus getting it sorted outside court is more likely to end up in an acceptable result.
On the other hand, as long as you stick strictly to the facts they cannot stop you from going public either ;)
BTW, I wonder what the chance of getting the moroder video removed from YT (and possibly other streaming services) due to copyright violation is like... do they treat small groups/individuals the same as major players or is it worth "going public" either?
@daXX: it depends - according to German law it would be a clear violation of both the protection of artistic work as well as its redistribution.
Things might differ remarkably in the US, though - e.g., there is no non-transferable Urheberrecht independent of the copyright there =(
Thus getting it sorted outside court is more likely to end up in an acceptable result.
On the other hand, as long as you stick strictly to the facts they cannot stop you from going public either ;)
BTW, I wonder what the chance of getting the moroder video removed from YT (and possibly other streaming services) due to copyright violation is like... do they treat small groups/individuals the same as major players or is it worth "going public" either?
So, any news?
