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Let our prods be our advertisements.

I still gotta learn this discipline skill. Or demomaking was fun?

Remember... Demoparties are twice fun when you release something. ;)

the best reward and motivation you could get...
having the crowd go crazy about your production!

WARNING: Titan Production... on SEGA MEGADRIVE ;) can you guess?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KULYh3mhJs

@ham:Have you checked out Pouet's very own all-time all-platforms Top 10? Farbrausch, ASD, TBL, most other groups in the top - the vast majority of that top is definitely NOT pure code. You represent a minority point of view, even here on Pouet.

Who said pure code. Code is the essence, it's the deciding factor between demo vs non-demo. No code, no demo. All other things you can leave out.

My point is: no, you cannot. You leave everything but the code out, you get something inferior.

metoikos: even with your understanding of "the visual language" you still needed help to do your first demo with conspiracy's tool, right? how to render geometry as particles, how to blend scientific quotes onto rendertargets, how to sync and render the stuff to screen. that's what i meant with it. So, despite knowing how to make awesome films in after effects, making a demo is a different ball game and requires some typical knowledge regarding doing everything in realtime 3D. and you can be quickly taught the basics, but to improve in that area requires devotion, practice and talent. and that's not romantic at all.

There have been compo final entries and even winners without any non-generated graphics and music. But if your entry doesnt run, you can't even enter it.

introspec: Don't make me laugh. Code is everything. Make a 1K intro about it!

or make something with OSDM!

make it invite only

(crack scene)

@Maali: I find your lack of romanticism disturbing.

It is weird having to explain, but here you go. It is very easy. You talk about making _a demo_. Yep, even three lines of code can enter, especially when it is a smaller party without a pre-selection. No wonder outsiders may not be not impressed with the results!

I, on the other hand, am trying to talk about making something _good_.

In mathematics, one distinguishes necessary conditions and sufficient conditions. Yes, it is NECESSARY to have some code in order to qualify as a demo. What I am telling you, it is not SUFFICIENT to get a good demo. AT ALL.

I am sure that your mythical outsiders can sense if the people are having fun or not, even if the demo has only three lines of code. Small parties by themselves are one of the greatest "artifacts" of the demoscene.

ham: yeah, im a bittered old man.. waiting for the midlife crisis to kick in so i can do romantic demos (not about bukkake) :)

@introspec: Art is not what you see. A demo is not the sensorial experience produced in a human mind by some digital images and sounds. I mean, it's not like a video. Demos are alive. Videos are dead. Code is life and life is code. Perhaps we need to include more randomness and interactivity in our demos to make it clearly noticeable in this evil YouTube era.

By the way, we don't need "outsiders". We need like-minded people. Of course, those outsiders that you mentioned might never be impressed by results that they cannot "see" or, perhaps, "feel".

Code (good or bad) is just what separates the demoscene from other things.

Nice thread btw.

ham, sorry, I am not into voodoo and stuff! :)

Voodoo. Who do, what you don't dare do people. ;)

Code is a very important aspect, but realtime is not. Look at the support for HBC, all their stuff is wild prerendered stuff but it's awesome, and clearly requires technical skill to pull off. There is a place for wild demos, art and music and we have compos for that.

I wonder how much the competitive element of the demoscene attracts and motivates people. I suspect it's significant. Maybe that's your hook: "prove you're better than these old farts."

yzi, I am not against parties, large or small. I am just saying that as far as partying goes, demoparties may struggle to compete against real clubs and discotheques.

So it is back to square one as far as I am concerned. What makes a good demo? a kind of demo that can intrigue or impress or get otherwise interested a person who have not seen a demo before? My answer is: it is not all about having a good code. It must have some code (to be a demo), but it needs a lot more than that. I see it as a good thing. I see it as an opportunity. However, several people here seem to be trying to prove to me that it is somehow not so good. The code that is the one, the only, the omnipotent. So, maybe it is not all that surprising after all that those people with seemingly similar interests do not get attracted to the demoscene.

I thought the realtime was the important part, being good code or bad code, hard to code effects that don't show off, or impressive effects with some clever cheating. But the realtime. Unless you want to submit for wild compo. It's what separates the demoscene and I mean with code. Else we are not much different than digital arts making prerendered videos. It's like there was a scene of people drawing in canvas. Then, later one said why not just capture photos, same result, much better quality. But then you are not painting, you are photography. Different scene. Demoscene is demoscene, because it's like digital arts 3d prerendered, but differs because it's realtime (with code). And I absolute love that, it's unique identity. Anyway, just my 2 cents.