Way to make people aware about the demoscene...
category: general [glöplog]
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I also agree with Smash here, it seems quite plausible that any noticeable growth of the scene would probably change things
I may have misunderstood Smash, but I read it the other way around: For growth, the scene would need to change.
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Stream grew in attendance every year it was organized. Revision gathers enough visitors every year for there to be a Revision. Payback was just fully booked in 5 minutes. [...] I think the demoscene is doing quite fine.
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Considering the amount of parties every year, and the amount of people visiting them every time, I think we're doing fine
The boozescene, pantsoffscene and in general the partyscene parts of the demoscene seem to be fine, I agree, and I do enjoy these parts! But the "demo" part of the demoscene is declining if you look at the number of demos released at parties, the number of comments for these demos, and (at least I perceive it that way) the average amount of effort put into new releases. (Not even talking about progress in art/style/technology here.)
Tastes differ, and of course it's fine if the party/social aspects of the demoscene are enough for some people so they don't see the need for new blood, change, growth, or whatever you call it. But I for one wouldn't mind some new blood if that results in new demo styles, higher-quality releases and fresh ideas for what I perceive is the core part of the demoscene: Demos.
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Quote:but on the other hand theres a lot of (usually younger generation) people who are still dreaming of the scene as a place were they can actually get good exposure (and maybe even a good job offer) for the newschool stuff they are doing while at the same time gathering skills and experiences for "higher goals", whatever they may be.
Eh, really? Who? All those people are active in all those scenes kb mentiond. Stuff that actually helps to progress their career.
Yeah exactly.
They are active on those "other" scenes now and would have been active in the demoscene 20 years ago. So something must have changed over time (or just being stuck in time).
smash won the thread.
If you think the demoscene's attractiveness only depends on what the scene is like, and not what the rest of the world is like, then why wasn't it popular in the US even during the most active time period? What was wrong? And what makes you think that that something could be changed now?
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They are active on those "other" scenes now and would have been active in the demoscene 20 years ago. So something must have changed over time (or just being stuck in time).
The internet happened
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The internet happened
That, and commoditization of advanced graphics hardware and freely available middleware etc.
Simply spoken you can now work creatively with a computer as the medium without having to code. Plus a scene that always thought this is somehow worth less.
The computer as the medium? I'd rather say, the "medium" in that case is some sort of virtual sheet of paper or something. By utilizing those easy-to-use tools you aren't grabbing the technology by the balls. For that you still need to code in some way. But the results may not be very impressive from a layman's point of view.
I'm also fine with the "actual size" of the demoscene and as long as I can party hard together with this special family, I call it a good time.
However, what I'm missing is more in-depth scene journalism. Every shitty niche interest group has its own magazine. Sure, there are some diskmags left, but they appear too irregularly, and the barrier for outsiders (if you would want to reach them) is too high, in my opinion. A decent 10-pages PDF with good content appearing every three months would be good enough for me. Or let it be a blog with a new article every week. But for that, you'd need at least ten people willing to research and write regularly. That is, spending time for something that can't win at a demoparty. In addition, you need two or three people really trying to "intellectually" discuss the demoscene. That is, finding the right words for the motivation of demosceners, pointing out connections between productions and the real world and so on. In other words, trying to give it more sense. I can see more and more computer game magazines arising that are looking at gaming that way and I really enjoy reading that.
However good the quality is though: I think regularity is the key here - and everywhere when talking about developing the scene. Be it parties, magazines, radio shows or little pub gatherings that you invite non-sceners to in order to assimilate them slowly. :-)
However, what I'm missing is more in-depth scene journalism. Every shitty niche interest group has its own magazine. Sure, there are some diskmags left, but they appear too irregularly, and the barrier for outsiders (if you would want to reach them) is too high, in my opinion. A decent 10-pages PDF with good content appearing every three months would be good enough for me. Or let it be a blog with a new article every week. But for that, you'd need at least ten people willing to research and write regularly. That is, spending time for something that can't win at a demoparty. In addition, you need two or three people really trying to "intellectually" discuss the demoscene. That is, finding the right words for the motivation of demosceners, pointing out connections between productions and the real world and so on. In other words, trying to give it more sense. I can see more and more computer game magazines arising that are looking at gaming that way and I really enjoy reading that.
However good the quality is though: I think regularity is the key here - and everywhere when talking about developing the scene. Be it parties, magazines, radio shows or little pub gatherings that you invite non-sceners to in order to assimilate them slowly. :-)
Just my humble opinion,
My first demoparty was the last breakpoint so im pretty new and the whole experience was amazing, even though half of the time i had no clue what i was looking at. It was just captivating, all these nice people together doing all sorts of creative things with computer. It struck me how nice everybody was, i felt right at home.
In the years my understanding of everything demoscene grew which made everything even more astonishing.
So, for me it had nothing to do with exposure or anything, the only goal i set for myself when i discovered the scene was to ever release a demo, just to contribute.
One of the most beautiful parts in my opinion is that there is no money or job stuff involved, it tends to make people behave shitty (look at gamejams). Everyone there is only doing it to show things they're proud of to each other, just for some recognition, fun or just to see some people without pants.
I met some new people this year at a computer science course and they were sold after showing them some demo's and talking about how nice everyone is and they'll join us to revision next year.
So just remember, the demoscene is a great place and thats because of you guys.
My first demoparty was the last breakpoint so im pretty new and the whole experience was amazing, even though half of the time i had no clue what i was looking at. It was just captivating, all these nice people together doing all sorts of creative things with computer. It struck me how nice everybody was, i felt right at home.
In the years my understanding of everything demoscene grew which made everything even more astonishing.
So, for me it had nothing to do with exposure or anything, the only goal i set for myself when i discovered the scene was to ever release a demo, just to contribute.
One of the most beautiful parts in my opinion is that there is no money or job stuff involved, it tends to make people behave shitty (look at gamejams). Everyone there is only doing it to show things they're proud of to each other, just for some recognition, fun or just to see some people without pants.
I met some new people this year at a computer science course and they were sold after showing them some demo's and talking about how nice everyone is and they'll join us to revision next year.
So just remember, the demoscene is a great place and thats because of you guys.
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finding the right words for the motivation of demosceners
"Because we can"(tm)
I feel bit surprise to see that some people might seem scare if more people would become demoscener as the medium or type of demo could changed?
Personally, I think the most amazing and popular demos are somehow those which surprise people... When thinking about... mathematica (c64), State of the arts, Second Reality, fr-08, craft, elevated and so on... They are amazing first because before them, that type of quality production/size/performance was not achieved. So, they are technically impressive but also visually stunning and really enjoyable to hear.
No matter age or background... I think the main factor which can bring someone to achieve a masterpiece is to be dedicated in his project and refine it...
Being in Canada, the numbers of demoparties and activities are more limited. I always have hard time to know why precisely... But, speculation about money or use for it... Although, I found that in life.. doing something because you like it is probably the most useful you can get! ;)
Personally, I think the most amazing and popular demos are somehow those which surprise people... When thinking about... mathematica (c64), State of the arts, Second Reality, fr-08, craft, elevated and so on... They are amazing first because before them, that type of quality production/size/performance was not achieved. So, they are technically impressive but also visually stunning and really enjoyable to hear.
No matter age or background... I think the main factor which can bring someone to achieve a masterpiece is to be dedicated in his project and refine it...
Being in Canada, the numbers of demoparties and activities are more limited. I always have hard time to know why precisely... But, speculation about money or use for it... Although, I found that in life.. doing something because you like it is probably the most useful you can get! ;)
It was exactly the sense of "hire me, I want to make music for games" that made me hate the so-called orchestral tunes that started popping up in music compos around 1994-1995. I don't say the songs were made with that in mind, just that that's what I thought back then.
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demoscene seem to be fine, I agree, and I do enjoy these parts! But the "demo" part of the demoscene is declining if you look at the number of demos released at parties, the number of comments for these demos, and (at least I perceive it that way) the average amount of effort put into new releases. (Not even talking about progress in art/style/technology here.)
Tastes differ, and of course it's fine if the party/social aspects of the demoscene are enough for some people so they don't see the need for new blood, change, growth, or whatever you call it. But I for one wouldn't mind some new blood if that results in new demo styles, higher-quality releases and fresh ideas for what I perceive is the core part of the demoscene: Demos.
tldr: the scene is dead.
People in all those other subcultures Smash listed are potential sceners, they just don't know it.
There's the scene, and there's this part of the scene.
The scene looks a bit different in different places, and at different times.
What we have in common the desire to create, and to explore ideas using computers.
And where circles overlap, some of the same cultural markers and injokes, although many of them are generational.
There's no reason the scenes Smash lists, or other scenes I can think of, can't be connected to the scene and have the scene as it is described here survive as what it is.
This is why I have such a wide range of speakers at the party I run and people think I'm a little odd. That's why I'd like to see outreach that looks like not "join us, what we do is cool" so much but "join us, do what you already do with us, good things will result from the cross-pollination".
The scene was fragmented by geography, and it still is. The internet and the ubiquity of computing devices provide many opportunities that there weren't before.
Somehow, the scene will always be alive. Don't worry.
There's the scene, and there's this part of the scene.
The scene looks a bit different in different places, and at different times.
What we have in common the desire to create, and to explore ideas using computers.
And where circles overlap, some of the same cultural markers and injokes, although many of them are generational.
There's no reason the scenes Smash lists, or other scenes I can think of, can't be connected to the scene and have the scene as it is described here survive as what it is.
This is why I have such a wide range of speakers at the party I run and people think I'm a little odd. That's why I'd like to see outreach that looks like not "join us, what we do is cool" so much but "join us, do what you already do with us, good things will result from the cross-pollination".
The scene was fragmented by geography, and it still is. The internet and the ubiquity of computing devices provide many opportunities that there weren't before.
Somehow, the scene will always be alive. Don't worry.
long live the scene
Le roi est mort. Vive le roi!
The scene is dead. Long live the scene.
An interregnum is avoided by using the idea of immediate transferral of power behind the phrase (i.e., the heir to the throne becomes a new monarch immediately on his predecessor's death).
The scene is dead. Long live the scene.
An interregnum is avoided by using the idea of immediate transferral of power behind the phrase (i.e., the heir to the throne becomes a new monarch immediately on his predecessor's death).
Demoscene: Dying since 1993! :]
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Outside of the scene people don't care about limitations or real-time.
I don't care that they don't care.
If you want a bigger audience, make it all about First Person Shooters running at 60 FPS in 1080p, I hear it's quite popular these days. Or you can keep it the way it is, about what WE like to create during our spare time ;)
Gargaj, btw, of course I prefer Elevated the 4k over the raw shader. But that's an outlier. On the other side there are a lot of Shadertoy shaders that look better than the median 4K.
(and it's nice that Shadertoy now supports sound output but nope, still not sold on the idea of GPU-only audio. Wake me up when there's something actually good coming out of it)
(and it's nice that Shadertoy now supports sound output but nope, still not sold on the idea of GPU-only audio. Wake me up when there's something actually good coming out of it)
oh, far cry 4 went gold? ;D
why doesn't anyone think of the CHILDREN^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HPEOPLE
F-Cycles: I was just kidding of course but I'm sure you see my point ;)
wysiwtf: Yes Sir, it did!
wysiwtf: Yes Sir, it did!