pouët.net

but really. scenecompos the first days and then head for BP. good idea.

So my answer is still, and always will be, MOVE THE GATHERING.

And not to the same week as Scene Event.

#include <windows.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <conio.h>
#include <math.h>
#include <time.h>
int main()
{
srand((unsigned)time(NULL));
printf("THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE!!!\n");
printf("%s will move their party to another date!!\n", rand()%2?"The Gathering":"Breakpoint");
getch();
return 0;
}

Grandma Truck, rather than ask a 12-yr-old party to change dates, you should look into the possibilities of cloning yourself. Double the pleasure, double the fun!

bustrip from breakpoint to tg! :D

Hell yeah! :D

Or someone could book a scener only plane with cheap tickets for all from Germany to Norway!

Gloom, as you seem to be the only scener involved in TG, why don't you simply quit the TG team and join the BP organizing team instead? The gamers stay at TG, and the last few sceners at TG move over to BP together with you :)

yeah, merge the gathering scenepart with breakpoint!

The Gathering
Breakpoing = The Breakpoint? ;)

I really think it sucks that due to TG being on the same date quite a bunch of sceners who otherwise would come to BP are lost up there. While in the past I always hated gamers taking over our beloved scene parties, in this case I'd actually welcome this, as we won't get the date-issue resolved.

Also I'm a bit worried about the sceners who plan to go to BP but remotely submit entries to TG because of the money. This quite stinks. Ways how this could be solved (of course all this is hypothetical and should be taken with quite a grain of salt):

- TG and BP merge scene-compos. For example all scene compos would be executed at BP, with live streams to TG (this actually would be technically doable). Yeah, this probably won't look attractive to TG, but with external sceners just submitting entries because of the money, it doesn't make that much of a difference anymore.

- Those sceners who are planning to remotely submit their entries to TG rethink what's really more important - showing their productions to sceners, or getting a bigger amount of cash.

- BP increases compo prize money so that the "we'll submit entries to TG to get the money"-stuff becomes less attractive. Actually the value of compo prizes isn't THAT much smaller at BP (and probably will increase again for BP05), but we don't advertise with it like TG does, as scene competitions shouldn't be about money (and because we don't know how much money is left for prizes until the party is already running). I'd prefer to spend our budget on improved party features instead, though. 2500 Euros for #1 Demo is a bit excessive, IMHO.

sir RICHARD kbab: The reason probably is, that Breakpoint is regarded as the more important scene party compared to TG. And well, as we are talking from a sceners perspective here it's rather logical that ppl are asking TG to move instead of the other way round.

And yes, back when M&S became Breakpoint TG being on the same date wasn't really seen as an issue, as it looked like the last scene parts of it were about to die anyway. It's thanks to Gloom this didn't happen.

Easiest solution to all this: Someone please beat down Gloom, wrap him up, and mail him down here to the BP orga team. ;)

i bet some norwegians would be up for that, because i remember some that actually liked bp =)

scamp: i believe the fact that there were 20-something demos submitted to the gathering this year kind of shows that gloom isn't the only scener involved with the gathering. it might not be THAT many sceners involved with ORGANIZING the gathering though. but there are a handfull.

I'm not sure, but i believe i heard some rumors about merging the compos between the gathering and mekka in 2001, via some streaming. I can't really see how people going to breakpoint but contributing to the gathering is a problem, as i think the only ones responsible for doing that is really just Slummy and me. And we do it to support the norwegian scene at the gathering, not for the money alone. The norwegian scene is really growing a lot these days, and the gathering has contributed a lot to this phenomena. Hey, if we wanted to get loaded, democoding would definatly not be our game.

kusma - going optimus since right now!

kusma: Question is if such a compo-merging option would be acceptable for TG organizing. If this once was planned indeed, it would be interesting to find out why it didn't work out.

Regarding TG scene orga team: Well, up until now I've never seen anything about other guys, so I guess gloom is the driving force.

not allowed to drink beer on a party sux so i rather go to breakpoint where they even sell beer =)

it's a matter of how you do it :) i have been drinking at tg every year except my first one (since then i wasnt really the biggest demoscener) without problems..

and of course the compos are fucked. i spent all my hours at tg last year trying to get duckers drunk so he couldnt code, and then he won the democompo...

no but seriously. tg used to be an ok party, and the last years it has become better again. just too bad experiencing breakpoint/mekka even once make people never want to go anywhere else again during easter... so i'm all for a co-op compo. or as we suggested ages ago: divide the scene tg from the gamer tg and have the scene tg at some other weekend. that would rule

I've also been drinking on TGs. The bad stuff is all the hiding away and not getting in etc. Hey, most of the people there are minors, I understand the rules.

but moving scene section to the beginning of the party would be great. Also quite cheap and funny since there would be bus-trips to germany :D

I support that idea.

One beer keg to the first geek who invents teleport instead of wasting time installing linux on a c64 to implement an internet-based toiletflusher.

Leia: in your fucking face!

As many of you have stated, the basic problem remains - there's two big parties colliding with dates and when BP is more appealing to the sceners (especially outside Norway), TG is suffering from this. No special combine-the-parties SAS ticket is going to solve this as most of us don't have the money, time and energy to do that (one week of partying, travelling between different countries - no thanks unless you're a true hardcore scener).

Combined compos sound like an interesting idea. Might work, only that this wouldn't change the fact that majority of the sceners will travel to Germany instead of Norway.

Only lasting longterm solution would change the dates so that there's at least one month between these two parties - after all it's Assembly, Breakpoint and The Gathering that are the three big ones these days and when two of these parties are held during the same week it's just... such a waste.

I'd like to visit TG again some day, haven't done that since the 90's - as long as it's at the same time with BP it's not going to happen.

scamp : what about merging compos and the prices : scene prices could be finance half by BP and Half by TG.
This would give even bigger prices and would kill the rivality beetween TG and BP.
This might sound stupid .... well it's just a suggestion.
Anyway I m not rich enought to go to norway. My Tp experience was so bad... i don't feel like going to scandinavia angain for scene purposes

but then again, is the situation that difficult? both parties seem to get both enough visitors and enough contributions...

Kusma: The problem is not the "enough visitors and enough contributions", the problem is that there are enough sceners who wish to go to both parties but not in a way melwyn mentioned.

why not have the gathering between xmas and new year, where the party used to be.

no, that's where TUM is, and at least my preferance would be obvious. =)

nosfe: You're thinking of The Party, not The Gathering. :) TP was unfortunately canceled this year after years of struggling with bad scener attendance (and attendance in general I presume), but TG does not have such a problem - only the problem with a lack of scener participants.

As Kusma says, TG has been getting better (and more) contribution each year since the turnaround in 2002, and this is a trend I really like to see. However; it does not change the fact that sooo many of the people we'd like to see at TG goes to BP instead.

- Moving the party is, as many people have said, not an option I'm afraid..

- Combining the compos .. well.. I don't quite see that happening either, as that would probably just drive the remaining sceners to BP, I believe.

- Moving the compos to the first day(s).. I don't see that happening either, as much of the "get together and work, the demoscene way"-spirit we've successfully managed to get on it's feet the last years would buckle under and die. It's not fun any more if you're not working towards a deadline...

- Extracting the demoscene-parts of TG and create a different party.. It's kind of unlikely, but have actually been talked of before (in 2000/2001), but was dismissed because it would: a) Lead to a lower "recruitment-rate" from the general mass and b) Probablt hurt the remaining party because it *isn't* a gamerparty.

Well, some good feedback from this thread atleast (who would have known?! :) so thanks for that. :)