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What is your opinion on this? IMHO it would be a great thing: people could do all the day what they really like to do (e.g., code demos) and nobody would have to worry about money required for staying alive.

OMG what a great idea! Imagine a whole nation or continent or - oh, why not: everyone on our freaking planet coding demos!

World peace. The end of racism, sexism, elitism and probably famine, too!
And what's more: the demoscene wouldn't be doomed to die of old age anymore!

It's a win-win situation!


Seriously, I had hoped for a far more elaborate and thought-out argument as a thread opener. o_O

Problem is, because income is from unconditional basic, which everyone knows enforces a bad style, everything will result in spaghetti logic that will melt your brain. Also, somebody has to pay for the spaghetti, guess who!

While you're at it, unconditional sex availability would also be nice...

Cheers

yep @noname. spaghetti logic. i can do that too. but i'm not hungry right now. it will never happen anyway.

The money financing this "income" doesnt come from nothing: People have to work hard and pay taxes, so the money is available to give it away for free.

People tend to forget, that every cent a state spends is taken from taxes and fees payed by (often hard) working people.

I am against an uncoditional basic income, because it is disrespectul against those who work for the tax money that would pay for that. The state should only support those who really need it, show empathy because they cannot help themselves, and those who can stand on their own feet are responsable for their income and supporting those in need by giving taxes to finance social security.

This needs more research, but when implemented correct it could be cheaper than social welfare. For example, here in .nl we waste 6.000.000.000EUR each year in programs to get people to work, while none of them has ever proven to work. Removing the pressure of becoming homeless could be a great stimulant. Less worrying ==more productivity.

https://decorrespondent.nl/541/why-we-should-give-free-money-to-everyone/20798745-cb9fbb39

Or we could help bring Venus Project to reality.

@forget the "for free". the tax shit is just calculation nightmare created by mankind. the banking and the rating sector controls the growth of rates of virtual money. that's the meatball.

the problem of the equation is that, at the end of the line the money always transfers into a big private wallet that is not charged for the balance of the public pot. it grows unequal. thus financing a basic income from the public pot doesn't work. or they blow up the rates to compensate it. but that'd explode the whole equation. it sux.

Money is virtual, that is a fact; especially since the abolition of the gold standard. It is an artificial entity created to distribute power among the population and make individuals dependent on others. In short, the system harms freedom. On the other hand, I do not know of a better way to allocate the value of goods, i.e. determine how much you have to work in order to purchase a particular article.

In my opinion it is a great problem that nowadays people really have to work hard in order to pay the rent and other basic things, while there are not jobs for everybody. It diminishes the time and energy you have for activities that really make you happy. After all, isn't happiness what we ultimately want?

There are just too many people.

Yes! Reduce the population to 500 million. Asana for new capital of the world! NWO ftw!

value of goods? food units. lol. how much was eaten to produce a particular entity. you work "room for free", "food for free", "tools for free", "get their own good for free" or the equality of a product with the same food units.

no that's just dumb. but does it equal the core money payment scheme?

@Adok you're a math genius. calculate it.

still spaghetti. all about something to eat. the rest is just wasting the day a kinda way. :D

I am glad there is money. Not only because it "forces" others to interact with me that otherwise probably would just dismiss me/discriminate me for whatever reasons. Even if they dont like my face and would love to kick my ass, because they need my money, they provide a service I need (and be it just cutting my hair).

Plus it makes organized crime and corruption transparent. The money transfers on bank accounts disclose those who use money to support crime/ asocial behaviour. The rate of corruption, measured thru money, makes transparent how civilized a society is.

Money is the blood flow thru societies, often making problems and injustices transparent, because it interconnects everything - on a global scale. And not unlike the blood flow in the body, the health of the system is measured by how the blood is circulating and every organ is getting enough of it. Is the flow stopping, do parts of the system dont get enough blood (money) or even at some parts it dams up, the system fails. And the blood is transporting information from one organ to the other - also not unlike money, since how money flows also provides information about the health of a system.

That's an interesting theory.

It was Astana btw.

That would work if one couldn't obfuscate money through revenuestreams and complex accountancy tricks. Money doens't make organised crime transparant and a lot of the stuff in high level corruption can never be traced back to the orginal source.

For small time crooks money can be a meaussurment of their illegal activities, yes. But as soon as you're talking cities, towns and whole countries the influence of organised crime can not be summed up in mere stacks of euros. If it was a simple numbers game the good guys would have already won.

While on the other end a lot of people could be helped with just a few bucks on a daily basis, no questions asked.

I am seriously hoping that I will see an unconditional basic income for (at least) every German citizen before I die. In my opinion it’s really the only way to evolve society that does not involve war, fascism, or some corporate dystopia.

this sounds like communism,and that didnt work.

Yes. Yes, basic income is exactly like communism, including the rise of Lenin and Marx. Good catch!

Bombe, it's not really unconditional if the condition to get it would be German citizenship ;)

Everyone, move to germany now! It's free money for everyone! What could go wrong?

Paradise in Earth.

I'll do demos, music, and crazy scientific experiments full time. Well, almost.

More robots, please!