pouët.net

After Numb Res and Uncovering Static (and the great seminar Smash gave at asm12), I just had to write a mesher too - it took a lot of time and work, but once I had it up and running it was awesome. Next up, SPH and bokeh? :)

I'll probably never come even close to the quality of the design of said productions, but at least tech-wise they were huge motivators.

if good demos can kill off a platform, why is the Amiga still alive?

There's a nice and a mean answer to that question :D

The Amiga is alive?

The "smash factor" is definitely an issue, not a platform killing one though.

For me it's kind of like this: You see some amazing new mind-blowing demo, and you think "shit, I can't compete with that". But in reality you can, it's just going to take time to get to that level.

At this point though there's a split. On the CPC or megadrive, I could target that kind of level, and a few years later maybe deliver on it. On PC I could do that, but then a bunch of even better demos get released, and it's like the goal posts are moving as fast as I am.

So I'd say good demos do more harm on PC than these rarer platforms, to my way of thinking at least.

Not that it matters in the end. There are many ways to make a great demo, competing at the ultra high end is only one. Design can beat great code, so can humour. (But if you're doing either of those please make the code good too, thanks :)

I'm sorry, but if this were an actual thing I'd never make a single piece of music.

I've been writing my ultimate synth since 1996...

i think choosing a more exotic platform is more a technical than a designwise decision.
its mostly about rising the bar on that platform (or even create it if its a world first).
many pc (and also c64 and other popular platform) demos dont have that ambition. the designers/artists want to make their vision reality, not break records, so they probably go for the tool/platform that fits the job best (most cases pc).

so the exotic platforms automatically have a smaller crowd around them and that means less releases and less momentum (duh, thats why they are called exotic i guess ;).

also many prods for exotic platforms are not made by groups who are exclusive to that platform (like many "mainstream-platform" groups are) so its likely that they dont stick to it but go conquer the next console afterwards which slows down the momentum of the scene on said platform even more.

tl;dr:
if a platform has < n groups developing for it its hard to get a constant flow of releases for that platform. so if an outstanding release pops up and then it gets silent around the platform again it might seem like the prod "killed" it (although it wasnt really alive before either).

"kill" is a strong word because there will always come the time where a new masterpiece appears. I think being somehow demoralized by the quality goes hand in hand with motivation. And everyone needs a hero to look up to :D

On the Atari 2600 we've actually witnessed the exact opposite: our demos always had the impetus of drumming up a real scene for the platform, because me, Ilmarque and pahamoka thought that the current demos in ~2007 were only barely representative on what the HW is capable of.

Sillyventure's 2600 compo is the evidence that our approach worked, by releasing demo after another and raising the bar very high with Doctor especially we set out to wait what other people could pull off.

And lo and behold, Tjoppen, JAC!, SvOlli, Shadow et al. saw what we were doing and continue pushing the limits of Stella. I'm intrigued to see what will happen in the coming years. We've collectively _still_ only scratched the surface on what is possible.

Q: Good demos more or less "killing off" a platform?
A: No, it does't kill anything; good demos inspire people, motivates and shows the way to go.

well, clearly I can't a will never be able to compete on the same league as the best like fairlight / farbrausch / asd so I choose to make something different!

remember Melon Dezign on Amiga, their demos were ~mostly~ really very average on the code side but was so different and fun that a lot of people enjoyed and it was one of the most loved crew with horde of fans (like me).

there's so much things to create that I think no demo can really kill off a platform :)

Let's assume the opening statement true, purely in theory.

What should we do then? Stop making good demos?

I'm a c64 scener, and IMHO the answer is quite simple: timing and popularity of platform. There is a big chunk of people growing up using these machines and during that time the demoscene also was born.

It feels like being a perv to say it, but I have a very close bond with the c64, I couldnt make with the amiga. I have sold my c64 to get an amiga1200, and no matter the technological leap & all the flashy demos, within a year I had to get a c64 setup again because I saw the new demos, and I had to better them, and I needed my cosy old platform back.

its that simple. love for the machine, and nr of ppl having it.

Strange, why would seeing something that's better than what you can produce put you off of a platform? I could only see that happening if the platform in question was dominated by childlike sceners with gigantic egos. Perhaps those people see their hobby as nothing but an ego-trip?

Personally, I agree with Preacher. It's more of a personal challenge. I'm currently learning Amiga assembly and if I were to judge myself by the standards of what others have done on the Amiga, I wouldn't bother.

No.

If a platform "dies" (aka has such a reduced production rate that people stop paying attention), it's cannot be blamed on a single popular prod making people go "no point in doing anything more". If this happens, it was going to happen anyway, regardless of the insanely good prod being released.

Kill all platforms.

ahh... I've almost forgot about this one!! thanks for reminding me, gargaj!

I don't know if this prod is a very good example because 90% of the content is stolen material/ideas.

It's killing the scene because of copyright infrigment, not because it ruled any platform :|

@rez that said, PSP is all about piracy, copy and ripping, right? :)

I make a difference between software piracy and stealing stuff without crediting authors in order to use it in your prod and claiming you made something awesome.

but it's another subject, let's stick back to the topic.

No one got good by worrying that they wouldn't be the best.

I think overdrive is inspiring and it's nice seeing some of my friends, these people are my friends, produce something good. We love the platform, all of us in the megadrive/genesis scene. It should not die because some of us do good stuff. How can a demo that has just come out kill the scene? you have not given us time

btw, I'm looking for pixlers

anyone who thinks a single demo that is basically the only demo worth mentioning on some platform would magically kill the platform is an idiot. if anything it shows that very few people cared about the platform to begin with (been there, got the tshirt, left platform, turned around, killed another *sigh*)

what really kills the platform is loonies discussing it on pouet when they could make a demo about it instead.