Amiga OCS
category: general [glöplog]
pouet falsely states amiga ocs demos to be amiga ecs demos since it
doesn't give the option to mark a production as amiga ocs.
the amiga had three chip-models: ocs, ecs, aga.
ecs had only some minor improvements and has been shipped e.g. in the amiga 500+ with kickstart
2.x. ecs-screenmodes haven't been used by the classic amiga demos which
in fact were programmed for the ocs chipset and thus have been run on
amiga 500, 1000, 2000, etc.
i suggest to rename "Amiga ECS" to "Amiga OCS" since
probably nobody would ever upload a true Amiga ECS demo.
doesn't give the option to mark a production as amiga ocs.
the amiga had three chip-models: ocs, ecs, aga.
ecs had only some minor improvements and has been shipped e.g. in the amiga 500+ with kickstart
2.x. ecs-screenmodes haven't been used by the classic amiga demos which
in fact were programmed for the ocs chipset and thus have been run on
amiga 500, 1000, 2000, etc.
i suggest to rename "Amiga ECS" to "Amiga OCS" since
probably nobody would ever upload a true Amiga ECS demo.
noname is right! cant believe that no one noticed this for years. :)
the ecs-chipset only existed in some A2000 and in A500+ and A3000 afaik and I also personally dont know of any demo using its new screenmodes.
the ecs-chipset only existed in some A2000 and in A500+ and A3000 afaik and I also personally dont know of any demo using its new screenmodes.
I live in Canada, which used NTSC Amiga 500's. When I first started to watch demos, most of them had minor gibbles due to the PAL/NTSC differences. But as soon as the ECS Agnus was available, I purchased one and replaced the old chip.
This new Agnus gave me the ability to switch between PAL and NTSC modes, and suddenly all those demos worked perfectly! So I certainly used at least one portion of the ECS hardware in order to watch demos with correct timing.
Of course, they weren't actually ECS demos, but even still, I relied upon one of it's new functions. Perhaps OCS/ECS as a combined category??
This new Agnus gave me the ability to switch between PAL and NTSC modes, and suddenly all those demos worked perfectly! So I certainly used at least one portion of the ECS hardware in order to watch demos with correct timing.
Of course, they weren't actually ECS demos, but even still, I relied upon one of it's new functions. Perhaps OCS/ECS as a combined category??
And while we're at it why not categorize PPC demos properly?
And add BBStro's :)
noname is right, OCS is not ECS
thom : you can easily patch an OCS A500 to run in 60 Hertz video mode, you have to connect 2 pins on the motherboard. (near Agnus chipset)
i do that on mine (in old times) with a switch to change 50 to 60 Hertz easily :)
in the same way, you can move the 512Kb of FASTram into CHIPram with another solder, to have 1Mb of CHIPram on a standard A500, perfect for sound and graphic programs ;-p
if i remember good, it exist few demos wich run for ECS modes, on A500+ and A600 with Kickstart 2.0. it's true OCS is the true generic mode for old Amiga prods, including Kickstart 1.2 and 1.3 productions.
thom : you can easily patch an OCS A500 to run in 60 Hertz video mode, you have to connect 2 pins on the motherboard. (near Agnus chipset)
i do that on mine (in old times) with a switch to change 50 to 60 Hertz easily :)
in the same way, you can move the 512Kb of FASTram into CHIPram with another solder, to have 1Mb of CHIPram on a standard A500, perfect for sound and graphic programs ;-p
if i remember good, it exist few demos wich run for ECS modes, on A500+ and A600 with Kickstart 2.0. it's true OCS is the true generic mode for old Amiga prods, including Kickstart 1.2 and 1.3 productions.
i wonder if anyone can confirm that hardwired does have a graphicsbug in the glenz vector part on his a500, too. the lines turn black and seem to fall apart, also the filled triangles just disappear (and the border at the bottom iirc). i seem to be the only one experiencing this problem, it even works in uae. what could be the reason for that?
robotriot: your question is very vague since you didn't state which "glenz vector part" you are talking about.
the only possible reason i could think of right now is that you are probably running different kickstart versions in your emulator and your real amiga 500. some old demos strictly rely on a specific kickstart version and i once experienced problems when trying to run a "kickstart 1.2" demo on my "kickstart 1.3" amiga 500. it worked but looked horribly distorted.
your problem is probably the result of a bad coding style and not a hardware bug. otherwise - and if it really annoys you - get another amiga. ;)
the only possible reason i could think of right now is that you are probably running different kickstart versions in your emulator and your real amiga 500. some old demos strictly rely on a specific kickstart version and i once experienced problems when trying to run a "kickstart 1.2" demo on my "kickstart 1.3" amiga 500. it worked but looked horribly distorted.
your problem is probably the result of a bad coding style and not a hardware bug. otherwise - and if it really annoys you - get another amiga. ;)
zone: Firstly, I *had* an 60 Hertz Amiga. It's the PAL modes I wanted. Canada is NTSC.
Secondly, I know of the hack you mention. It requires the newer ECS Fat Agnus that allows for 1 meg of chipRAM, as well as 50/60 Hz switching.
My Amiga was a 1.2 and contained the 8370 Agnus, not the 8372A, which I bought seperately in 1990. Many later Amiga 500's had this ECS Agnus, but not the ECS Denise. However, A500+ machines had both, with the 1 meg ChipRAM enabled. (And they also might've had a later revision of the 1 Meg Agnus, but who knows...)
Original PAL A500s used the 8371 Agnus.
Secondly, I know of the hack you mention. It requires the newer ECS Fat Agnus that allows for 1 meg of chipRAM, as well as 50/60 Hz switching.
My Amiga was a 1.2 and contained the 8370 Agnus, not the 8372A, which I bought seperately in 1990. Many later Amiga 500's had this ECS Agnus, but not the ECS Denise. However, A500+ machines had both, with the 1 meg ChipRAM enabled. (And they also might've had a later revision of the 1 Meg Agnus, but who knows...)
Original PAL A500s used the 8371 Agnus.
noname: afaik there's only one glenz vectors part in hardwired, it's the one that's being announced with "48 glenz vectors" or something like that. the bug only appears at the end of this part.
but i will try running uae with 1.2, i've got that in my a500.
but i will try running uae with 1.2, i've got that in my a500.
alright, the bug doesn't occur with winuae and kickstart 1.2, that's strange. but it might be something else, on uae it displays "real fast located" at the beginning, on the a500 it's "fake fast located".
Maybe you're copy of the demodisk has errors?
And my spelling rules =)
robotriot: sorry, i read hardwired as "hardware" ;)
my fault. but anyways, i don't know a solution to that.
my fault. but anyways, i don't know a solution to that.
britelite: i'm actually using the same version
And your diskdrive could ofcourse be the problem too ;)
but the demo has worked fine on both my 1.2 and 1.3 a500's...
but the demo has worked fine on both my 1.2 and 1.3 a500's...
Been silently mumbling about that ECS category since I joined, but being a good boy (c) Paul McCartney's Mom (eh.. wtf?:)) I didn't mind.
It's true that extremely few non-AGA 68000+ demos use Superhires etc modes nor require huge blits/ >512K chipmem addressing. Which means any OCS machine that meets the memory requirement will run'em :)
I guess most of those demos are now categorized as ECS, so changing them to OCS and adding ECS for the remaining few would spin my floppy :) And Amiga PPC as category, why not.
I actually asked about this on EAB, http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=46116 without knowing this thread existed!
It's true that extremely few non-AGA 68000+ demos use Superhires etc modes nor require huge blits/ >512K chipmem addressing. Which means any OCS machine that meets the memory requirement will run'em :)
I guess most of those demos are now categorized as ECS, so changing them to OCS and adding ECS for the remaining few would spin my floppy :) And Amiga PPC as category, why not.
I actually asked about this on EAB, http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=46116 without knowing this thread existed!
What Photon said, nice to see someone else griping about this for a change.
The category should be OCS as default, with maybe an additional ECS category for those special cases. Hell, just renaming it "OCS/ECS" would be enough for me. Demos requiring more ECS features than 1MB chip addressing are VERY rare. I recall 3-4 such prods in the 11000+ non-AGA ones I have personally executed.
Apart from the technical side, the naming is simply wrong factually speaking. "ECS" relesases made way before the chipset even existed? Wtf? Pouet is still a database, and this kind of a database shouldn't be about making shit up. Leave that to the Freax book ;)
That said, the funny thing is that the vast majority of OCS releases work just fine under ECS configs. I often use ECS to test old stuff, because it's a great way to notice and flag older OCS exclusive prods which fail under more modern configs. Nevertheless, the category naming is still horribly wrong :)
The category should be OCS as default, with maybe an additional ECS category for those special cases. Hell, just renaming it "OCS/ECS" would be enough for me. Demos requiring more ECS features than 1MB chip addressing are VERY rare. I recall 3-4 such prods in the 11000+ non-AGA ones I have personally executed.
Apart from the technical side, the naming is simply wrong factually speaking. "ECS" relesases made way before the chipset even existed? Wtf? Pouet is still a database, and this kind of a database shouldn't be about making shit up. Leave that to the Freax book ;)
That said, the funny thing is that the vast majority of OCS releases work just fine under ECS configs. I often use ECS to test old stuff, because it's a great way to notice and flag older OCS exclusive prods which fail under more modern configs. Nevertheless, the category naming is still horribly wrong :)
robotriot: it's "glenz - vectors - 48 - faces" actually, each word written in capitals the size of the full screen :-) what a great demo this was, one of the first I ever saw..
On topic: How about "NoAGA" or "Non-AGA" as a category name?
On topic: How about "NoAGA" or "Non-AGA" as a category name?
That doesn't make any sense compared to other Pouet naming conventions.. Wouldn't want to see MS-DOS -demos labeled "Non-Windows" ;)
Since I have the hunch that no essential changes will be done on the current version of the board (i.e. adding new platforms/ HW differencies) I'm with the suggestion of renaming the existing HW category to "OCS/ECS". It'll be the simplest way - I guess.
yea, and what about MorphOS? Plenty of Amiga PPC prods work on MorphOS.
You have BeOS allready......RACISM!!!!
And there is also AmigaOS4.x. Dont know too much about it, but if normally all "classic" Amiga PPC demos run on it, then maybe the PPC/RTG should be renamed AmigaOS4.x
The whole "RTG" thing is silly. Cant remember any demo that ran ONLY with a gfx-card and no PPC.
(jeje, I guess some nerd will find one...but ya get the point)
No wait, what about all thoose PPC amigas with only AGA. Most PPC demos are made for that config........FHAAAK, this is just too complicated.
You have BeOS allready......RACISM!!!!
And there is also AmigaOS4.x. Dont know too much about it, but if normally all "classic" Amiga PPC demos run on it, then maybe the PPC/RTG should be renamed AmigaOS4.x
The whole "RTG" thing is silly. Cant remember any demo that ran ONLY with a gfx-card and no PPC.
(jeje, I guess some nerd will find one...but ya get the point)
No wait, what about all thoose PPC amigas with only AGA. Most PPC demos are made for that config........FHAAAK, this is just too complicated.
Suggestion: Do nothing for the current pouet version.
For pouet 2.0, have a single "Amiga" category, then have tags that can be applied to it such as "OCS", "ECS", AGA", "PPC", "RTG". Then just tag each prod with all that apply.
Then you'd have "PAL" and "NTSC" tags, which would apply to other categories as well as Amiga. Things like that.
For pouet 2.0, have a single "Amiga" category, then have tags that can be applied to it such as "OCS", "ECS", AGA", "PPC", "RTG". Then just tag each prod with all that apply.
Then you'd have "PAL" and "NTSC" tags, which would apply to other categories as well as Amiga. Things like that.
rm -R \webs\pouet
"oops"
"oops"
get your slashes right dude :P (or better don't)
