Revision 2013
category: parties [glöplog]
leave knoeki alone!
No revision so i will not even touch Knoeki even if he is cute, also iam a bit more happy now and prolly will go to an Amigaparty in Skaane, well well
Hi,
just to chime in a bit on the GEMA discussion and give some support to the guys organizing revision from one guy that (co-)organizes Evoke for some time.
What Revision does is almost exactly what we do at evoke for years. We are gettign more and more experienced how to handle things like this and are working on that very topic almost every year.
Being (kind of) labeled "anti-gema" last year (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Evoke-2012-Demo-Party-mit-Pre-Show-und-ohne-GEMA-1662510.html) I feel oblidged to give a few pieces of insight on how we handle things at Evoke.
- We keep the DJs outside, this gives us a much smaller space that we have to pay for, and the DJs can play GEMA stuff. Otherwise Stornos Michael Jackson in the middle of the night might have gotten us in some trouble :) This costs us (at the moment) approximately 400 Euros. We feel that this is a fair price to pay.
- We advertise on the Website that we won't accept releases from GEMA-Members in the competitions.
- We advertise on the BigScreen that we won't accept releases from GEMA-Members in the competitions.
- We make you give your Realname when releasing something that has an audio-track...for this exact reason. We need to give this to GEMA afterwards. Personally we do not care at all how you are being called in your freetime.
- We make you check a checkbox that you confirm you are not a member of GEMA before your upload any kind of release with an audio-track.
This is about all we can do short of checking the gathered names against some (barely existing) databases on the web _before the compo_ to filter out possible problems.
All of this extends to members of BIEM. We know there is societies that are way cooler than GEMA, we can not check up on copyright law in every country and every organization on the world though. So we are sorry that we have to take this path.
My stand on the whole GEMA thing is very much in the middle of the two extremes. We need something like them, since we can not take a setlist of the DJs and call all the artists beforehand and haggle a price with them. I think it is rediculous that you give away ALL the rights on ALL your artwork and have no say whatsoever. But that is what you signed.
I, personally, think that the text on the Revision website is a bit harsh but it is 100% our stance as well. We will TRY to find some kind of agreeement with GEMA when there are any kind of problems (turns out jeenio as a very common realname and some dance artist too (this is why we need your birthdate as well)), if this is not possible and we have to pay for the whole weekend for the whole location (which would be approx. 4500 Euros for Evoke) we would try to get that money back.
There basically also is n way for us to take this from the prizemoney, since the problems with GEMA music arises way after the party and we usually give out ALL of the surplus we make at evoke for prizes on sunday. So what we will have to pay will be a net-loss for the party and Digitale Kultur e.V. in the end.
At the moment, given how things are. We as organizers are forced to live with what we have and we go out of our way to still make things possible. If you would ask Poti about the work that goes into "GEMA Scheisse" every year, I guess you will have to have at least half an hour of time to listen to the rant.
All we can do is to urge each and everyone to think, check their contracts, ask their representatives and then release or not release at any (german) demoparty. And if you can't release because of your contracts, think about that for a while and wager your priorities, then take action.
Pretty please, with sugar on top, do not cause us more work with GEMA and make us pay for your mistakes. And, at least for me, don't force action against GEMA or whomever onto us. We are already making very clear, in talks to gema, in that press release at heise (above) and everywhere else that we think there is a problem...take a stand on your own.
Again, this is my personal opinion and not the one of the evoke organizing team or even Digitale Kultur. I just hope this sheds some light at what we ARE doing at the moment, and what we WILL NOT be doing in any kind of future. cheers.
just to chime in a bit on the GEMA discussion and give some support to the guys organizing revision from one guy that (co-)organizes Evoke for some time.
What Revision does is almost exactly what we do at evoke for years. We are gettign more and more experienced how to handle things like this and are working on that very topic almost every year.
Being (kind of) labeled "anti-gema" last year (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Evoke-2012-Demo-Party-mit-Pre-Show-und-ohne-GEMA-1662510.html) I feel oblidged to give a few pieces of insight on how we handle things at Evoke.
- We keep the DJs outside, this gives us a much smaller space that we have to pay for, and the DJs can play GEMA stuff. Otherwise Stornos Michael Jackson in the middle of the night might have gotten us in some trouble :) This costs us (at the moment) approximately 400 Euros. We feel that this is a fair price to pay.
- We advertise on the Website that we won't accept releases from GEMA-Members in the competitions.
- We advertise on the BigScreen that we won't accept releases from GEMA-Members in the competitions.
- We make you give your Realname when releasing something that has an audio-track...for this exact reason. We need to give this to GEMA afterwards. Personally we do not care at all how you are being called in your freetime.
- We make you check a checkbox that you confirm you are not a member of GEMA before your upload any kind of release with an audio-track.
This is about all we can do short of checking the gathered names against some (barely existing) databases on the web _before the compo_ to filter out possible problems.
All of this extends to members of BIEM. We know there is societies that are way cooler than GEMA, we can not check up on copyright law in every country and every organization on the world though. So we are sorry that we have to take this path.
My stand on the whole GEMA thing is very much in the middle of the two extremes. We need something like them, since we can not take a setlist of the DJs and call all the artists beforehand and haggle a price with them. I think it is rediculous that you give away ALL the rights on ALL your artwork and have no say whatsoever. But that is what you signed.
I, personally, think that the text on the Revision website is a bit harsh but it is 100% our stance as well. We will TRY to find some kind of agreeement with GEMA when there are any kind of problems (turns out jeenio as a very common realname and some dance artist too (this is why we need your birthdate as well)), if this is not possible and we have to pay for the whole weekend for the whole location (which would be approx. 4500 Euros for Evoke) we would try to get that money back.
There basically also is n way for us to take this from the prizemoney, since the problems with GEMA music arises way after the party and we usually give out ALL of the surplus we make at evoke for prizes on sunday. So what we will have to pay will be a net-loss for the party and Digitale Kultur e.V. in the end.
At the moment, given how things are. We as organizers are forced to live with what we have and we go out of our way to still make things possible. If you would ask Poti about the work that goes into "GEMA Scheisse" every year, I guess you will have to have at least half an hour of time to listen to the rant.
All we can do is to urge each and everyone to think, check their contracts, ask their representatives and then release or not release at any (german) demoparty. And if you can't release because of your contracts, think about that for a while and wager your priorities, then take action.
Pretty please, with sugar on top, do not cause us more work with GEMA and make us pay for your mistakes. And, at least for me, don't force action against GEMA or whomever onto us. We are already making very clear, in talks to gema, in that press release at heise (above) and everywhere else that we think there is a problem...take a stand on your own.
Again, this is my personal opinion and not the one of the evoke organizing team or even Digitale Kultur. I just hope this sheds some light at what we ARE doing at the moment, and what we WILL NOT be doing in any kind of future. cheers.
[GEMA discussion intermission]
Zijn er hollanders danwel belgen die naar die godvergeten plek rijden en behoefte hebben aan twee passagiers?
[/GEMA discussion intermission]
Zijn er hollanders danwel belgen die naar die godvergeten plek rijden en behoefte hebben aan twee passagiers?
[/GEMA discussion intermission]
Ik kan een extra neger meenemen maar dan wel van kut-wat-vroeg-dinsdag tot tering-nu-nog-niet-naar-huis-dinsdag eropvolgend.
Neger nummer 2 kan zich op het dak vastbinden desgewenst of met een skatebordje achteraan bengelen.
Neger nummer 2 kan zich op het dak vastbinden desgewenst of met een skatebordje achteraan bengelen.
"I can take an extra Negro but from cunt-what-early Tuesday ment-now-not-to-home on Tuesday next.
Nigger number 2 may be on the roof tie or optionally with a skate board back dangle."
Nigger number 2 may be on the roof tie or optionally with a skate board back dangle."
seems legit.
google translate does excellent jobs at flemmish \o/
having seen New Kids Turbo, I can confirm that kut = cunt .. the complete translation make it seem like they speak dutch like they do in New Kids, so the general dutchmen must therefore = New Kids ... that's what legal drugs does to a whole country i presume?
DWARFS MOEDER, KUT!
Funny fact: Did anybody realized, that party will be 1 hour shorten this year? There is an international time change on Saturday/Sunday night (30-31 March). This could be a nice and confusing fun :)
as long as the prizegiving ceremony will be at 11:30
y2kbug!
I want my money back for that hour! Or just close the party an hour later! :>
onoes the bi-annual clock idiocy will strike at Easter. Splendid.
Let's hope partymeister stores everyhing in UTC ^^ or else!
Or nothing particularly important happens at 2-3am.
Turn up an hour earlier!
Way ahead of you :)
in the hour that doesnt exist we can play GEMA-protected music!
Quote:
All of this extends to members of BIEM. We know there is societies that are way cooler than GEMA, we can not check up on copyright law in every country and every organization on the world though. So we are sorry that we have to take this path.
Quote:
All we can do is to urge each and everyone to think, check their contracts, ask their representatives and then release or not release at any (german) demoparty.
If I got steam right, there is a tiny tiny (huge!) difference from revisions standpoint. Revision said "even if your countrys organisation does allow you to release CC/release work not registered to the organisation, GEMA rules apply so even if you are a member of such an organisation, competing at revision is a NO NO.
While steam/evokes standpoint seems to be (if I understood right): if your countrys organisation allow you to release CC/release work not registered to the organisation, please make sure that is 100% and then be free to compete.
now, which one apply? does GEMA overrule or not overrule other BIEM organisations rules? I guess the case is that it is not fully clear but noone dares to try because GEMA would win in any German court in any subject, right or wrong, because of IFPI lobbying and biased judges but still, just checking...
@dubmood
well i guess it goes like this: if your name is found in the geme/biem database they will apply the famous gema-vermutung and start writing bills.
then you have to send them proof that your track is indeed not covered by your organisation and thus also not by gema and eventually they will let you go (if you dont fuck anything up or they find a loophole).
so yeah i guess this is possible if you are willing to take the paperwork aftermath allthough i kind of also see the revision orgas pov who dont want to take risks or pay up in any case.
well i guess it goes like this: if your name is found in the geme/biem database they will apply the famous gema-vermutung and start writing bills.
then you have to send them proof that your track is indeed not covered by your organisation and thus also not by gema and eventually they will let you go (if you dont fuck anything up or they find a loophole).
so yeah i guess this is possible if you are willing to take the paperwork aftermath allthough i kind of also see the revision orgas pov who dont want to take risks or pay up in any case.
Dfox urged people to contact their organizations and bring statements of release if their org. is cool with CC releases. So Dubbiedub, you'd just need to get a statement from SACEM saying "yo, we cool with this dude releasing this thing under CC!" and that would rule out GEMA going cray with fines.
Correct me if I'm wrong tho..
Correct me if I'm wrong tho..
That's the current theory, yes. But as said many times before - we cannot check your contracts with your organization and don't have insight into their contract with gema - it's your job to convince us to let you participate - as sad and evil as that may sound.
So, i'd say the following should work:
1. You ask your organization if it's ok to release in Germany without having Revision pay for it
2. You let your organization VERIFY this with GEMA and get some piece of writing from GEMA about that
3. You show us that piece of writing
4. You release
5. We submit the playlists including your permits
At least that's my current theory. I'll need to check with netpoet if I'm right or not.
So, i'd say the following should work:
1. You ask your organization if it's ok to release in Germany without having Revision pay for it
2. You let your organization VERIFY this with GEMA and get some piece of writing from GEMA about that
3. You show us that piece of writing
4. You release
5. We submit the playlists including your permits
At least that's my current theory. I'll need to check with netpoet if I'm right or not.
