Web GL
category: code [glöplog]
That works sometimes, I've done that with jeenio before. And if they don't accept it falls into the antisocial behavior slot.
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As nerd it's scary to go alone to a party, where you don't know anybody
Too young to attend, parents think it's a LAN anyway
I know I'm only a musician but...
What's to young for going to a party?
I did attend my first party at age 17. Not so young.
I was all alone, knew nobody as I only knew trackers from #modarchive mostly and dear Sir Willbe told me to come to LTP4.
So I took a bag, put some belongings, took a train, took a suburb train, read some books.. and arrived at the party place.
Indeed, could be hard for a real "nerd" but as I said, I'm a musician, insert _COOL JOKES_ about it.
You know what they say about travels and youth? uh?
The scene is either about making any efforts or making none I believe. In the end it's not even an effort, it's just about "I really want to commit to this all"
Well....
THIS is a demo (PC):
Or THAT ONE (C64):
Lots of new people there!
THIS is a demo (PC):
Or THAT ONE (C64):
Lots of new people there!
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little reason for people outside of the scene to want to contribute into it
it works both ways. there's little reason for people inside the scene to do webgl demos, and there's little reason for people outside the scene to do webgl demos (in the circlejerk sense of the word).
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the first hurdle of showing up on a party where you expect to see "the gods of the scene"
are we still talking about non-sceners or people from the other scenes? they really don't give a rat's ass about who the "gods of the scene" are :)
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Smash, Navis and DubMood
is this a "pick the odd one out" game? :D
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I disagree. Think about it: most sceners love the exposure, the feedback and the thrill of making others go "wow" with their productions -- and at the same time most sceners are seriously overqualified in terms of getting a lot (good visuals) out of little (limited technical platform). It seems like a perfect fit for a lot of people, if they would only invest a little time in it. Right now there are no better platforms to massively impress a whole group of people than doing it on the web.there's little reason for people inside the scene to do webgl demos
That said -- the point Smash and IQ made still stands: there might not be much of a personal gratification factor in terms of how the appealing the platform actually is, but if we're looking for quick wins: the web is surely it.
If people can make it to the party, make the party come to the people!
We can make a realTV show where dozen of sceners come to those other-scenes folks houses and show them what a demoparty means! And we bring beam+PA and we show him his prods on the bigscreen "so next time you release at Revision mkayy?".
More seriously, adjusting a bit the wording and the look of the parties website (eg: demodays) and promoting the events on channels like HackerNews, Reddit, Twitter (and there are probably better ones) is a nice step.
Even if it's not the core of the issue.
More generally, outreach is a complex, long, but important process , if we want to be "realtime audiovisual stuff w/ competition & community" and not "retrocomputers coders who code only in ASM".
We can make a realTV show where dozen of sceners come to those other-scenes folks houses and show them what a demoparty means! And we bring beam+PA and we show him his prods on the bigscreen "so next time you release at Revision mkayy?".
More seriously, adjusting a bit the wording and the look of the parties website (eg: demodays) and promoting the events on channels like HackerNews, Reddit, Twitter (and there are probably better ones) is a nice step.
Even if it's not the core of the issue.
More generally, outreach is a complex, long, but important process , if we want to be "realtime audiovisual stuff w/ competition & community" and not "retrocomputers coders who code only in ASM".
you cant really expect someone who barely knows anything about the scene to decide to learn about it by spending lots of money and giving up 3-4 days of their precious time to fly across europe to go to something they have no idea is their thing or not and where they dont know anyone, can you?
gloom: depends on who you want to impress. personally i dont really want to do something people say is "nice for webgl", i want to do something where people say "wow is that really realtime". :)
(but then for the same reason im not really bothered by sizecoding or other lower end platforms either, im sure others are more so)
wullon: the best single piece of outreach the demoscene could do, but hasnt had for years, is a good curated regularly updated site of hand-selected demos chosen to appeal to a wider target audience, with some information about what's going on behind each one.
any outreach effort breaks down when people ask "so where do i get these demos then" and the answer is "erm.. pouet, but its a bit of a mess and its full of dicks.. or you could search youtube.."
(but then for the same reason im not really bothered by sizecoding or other lower end platforms either, im sure others are more so)
wullon: the best single piece of outreach the demoscene could do, but hasnt had for years, is a good curated regularly updated site of hand-selected demos chosen to appeal to a wider target audience, with some information about what's going on behind each one.
any outreach effort breaks down when people ask "so where do i get these demos then" and the answer is "erm.. pouet, but its a bit of a mess and its full of dicks.. or you could search youtube.."
Ive been showing Demos to friend for years and allthough they respect it being a hobby of mine and also like quite few of them all my attempts to bring them to a party are in vain.
Travelling for hours (even if its a german party) and spending >100 Euros? Nope.
Most of them didnt even come to Nordlicht while it was only 15 and in their own town...
Outreach alone doesnt do it, sadly.
Travelling for hours (even if its a german party) and spending >100 Euros? Nope.
Most of them didnt even come to Nordlicht while it was only 15 and in their own town...
Outreach alone doesnt do it, sadly.
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Yeah, I didn't exactly have you or IQ in mind with that thought :) But personally I would really love to be part of something that makes the current internet media elite go "Woah.. THAT'S WebGL?!" just for the sake of FU.gloom: depends on who you want to impress. personally i dont really want to do something people say is "nice for webgl", i want to do something where people say "wow is that really realtime". :)
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you cant really expect someone who barely knows anything about the scene to decide to learn about it by spending lots of money and giving up 3-4 days of their precious time to fly across europe to go to something they have no idea is their thing or not and where they dont know anyone, can you?
I'm not sure actually.
I'd say, you can try. A demoparty with a sexy website, fair price, great conferences (as a bait ;p), compos prize, promoted on the right channels... I think it can reach a bit "the other scenes".
(DotJS managed to bring together 600+ persons for his first edition. Ok, it's different (it's conferences). But my point is coders travel and spend money to go to events they don't know if they have incentive to do so)
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i dont really want to do something people say is "nice for webgl"
Exactly.
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the best single piece of outreach the demoscene could do, but hasnt had for years, is a good curated regularly updated site
You think awards.scene.org is not enough / right for the job?
I thought the next step was broken, you know the "yeah I've seen the cool demoscene stuff, now what?".
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Working on it..the best single piece of outreach the demoscene could do, but hasnt had for years, is a good curated regularly updated site
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But personally I would really love to be part of something that makes the current internet media elite go "Woah.. THAT'S WebGL?!" just for the sake of FU.
Internet media elite would go "WOOOAAAAH" but then you guys would say "Hey, FU" and then they wouldn't want to get into the scene because this very, manly, competitive style is actually far from their own vision about "creating".
You guys don't seem to want to contribute to "their discussion", you want to show them how better and smarter you are and then try to tell them to join the scene, you want to hijack their scenes, steal some of their guys...
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it sounds to me right now.
kaneel: well, the objective of making them go "WOOOAAAH" wouldn't be to _actually_ tell them to fuck off, but instead to show other sceners that it's more than doable, and by doing so inspiring sceners currently doing Windows-only prods to branch out to the web. In a way, making sure that there is at least some degree of succession for the sceners that are still active on the next logical platform.
In some ways, you would have to embrace webGL and the way these internet media guys communicate, to embrase and feel the pleasure of doing it, then, it would make more sense and people may get interested into the former demoscene.
thing is, as a limited platform, webgl is sort of stuck in the middle. even in our dear scene with an assload of arbitrary limitations, you can usually derive some kind of sane reasons for their appeal.
with oldschool platforms, you accept the limitations because they're imposed by the hardware, and the hardware is different (and old) enough to be interesting. with pc sizecoding, you accept the limitations because it's just the size - you're still free to use current tech, you just have to jump through dozens of extra hoops. i'd imagine webgl would feel like working with the retarded cousin of current gen pc's.
i do agree on the points about exposure and easy thrills though.
with oldschool platforms, you accept the limitations because they're imposed by the hardware, and the hardware is different (and old) enough to be interesting. with pc sizecoding, you accept the limitations because it's just the size - you're still free to use current tech, you just have to jump through dozens of extra hoops. i'd imagine webgl would feel like working with the retarded cousin of current gen pc's.
i do agree on the points about exposure and easy thrills though.
kaneel: I believe that's the only way to handle it, yeah. You can't force an interest on people, especially not when it's so heavily soaked in history and community culture. Expose those parts as well, but let people engage on a level they're comfortable with. So they might not go to parties or hang out on Pouet (hopefully :), but hey, they might contribute new demos or help spread others.
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Totally, it's not even close to being the ideal platform, but right now it's the one we've got that offers "easy" web distribution, interactivity and development. Not ideal, but what we've got.thing is, as a limited platform, webgl is sort of stuck in the middle.
yeah, i agree. it also offers an already existing enthusiastic audience to reach out to, and the word travels fast.
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is this a "pick the odd one out" game? :D
Massive LOL
kaneel: at what point does us getting those internet media people to join the demoscene become the demoscene joining the internet media types?
ok im playing devils advocate but if some demosceners feel like they want to do internet media elite kind of stuff, why not just go do it? why do they have to stay constrained by the demoscene?
ok im playing devils advocate but if some demosceners feel like they want to do internet media elite kind of stuff, why not just go do it? why do they have to stay constrained by the demoscene?
Also it doesn't seem a big deal to released a WebGL prod at a demoparty and then spread it on the intarweb, blog about it and so on.
smash: that's more or less my point, yes. At some point trying to convert someone to join your cult becomes completely unreasonable, so trying to rub off some demoscene spirit the other way is by far the path of least resistance.
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Quote:Smash, Navis and DubMood
is this a "pick the odd one out" game? :D
Whats so odd about Navis? ;D
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kaneel: at what point does us getting those internet media people to join the demoscene become the demoscene joining the internet media types?
Well put.
There's maybe something to do like demoscene corners in the middle of "hacking" events and hacking corners in the middle of demoparties.. like the Alternative party actually.