pouët.net

ringofyre: Smash's point was that instead of building new demo review sites to review an ever decreasing amount of demos, people should make demos. It wasn't a knock on people who actually build community features, but a more general hint at not only do people talk much and do little, the little many do is perhaps the wrong thing -- IF, the overall goal is to "save" the scene.

As I read you: you're not disagreeing with Smash at all, just cherry picking and interpreting parts of a statement, in order to fuel an argument noone is having. :)

...and god forbid you'd mention them, cos then people might start reading!

Furry muff.
My point was more aimed @ the fact that D.Fox had actually done something (again not really relevant) rather than all the jibber-jabber.

See, I have coded in asm and a bit of C which lead me here many years ago. But I've never made a demo. I've made some music (but it's shit).
TBH in my business I leave the the coding those who can inject code into other people's software to those who have a passion for it. I no longer do.
Having done it in the past to little or no success. Trust me when I tell you (having worked as a carer) - cleaning up someone else's shit is never fun.

However getting back to the topic - the 1st time I came here I was lambasted - even tho I stated clearly what I have just typed above.
Just because I've never produced a prod or I don't have the requisite amount of glops - that hasn't stopped me being part of the scene. & that I think at least carries some weight when I make suggestions about how to treat n00bs.

ringofyre: with all due respect, in the current state of the scene, i think too many people think their suggestions should carry weight. that's part of the problem. and i'm not saying smash's or dfox's or anyone's word is above all else - i'm saying they have proven to know IN A SCENE CONTEXT what they're talking about. real life experience is often of little use here.

If all of us would produce only winner demos we would not need a compo with >10 entries, your point is moot - look at older MFX demos, or any other group - they improve over time. If you accept the point that your shit can't compete with, for instance, Navis in your first demo it's easier to actually get stuff done.

And, there will always be haters, not matter what you where able to achieve - either for yourself or for the scene as whole.

One more point, nobody said everyone should write a demo, we need people like D.Fox who organize demoparties, we need people like wysiwtf who upload the stuff here, we also need you to upload funny pics in the random image thread. So stop making up strawmen, do stuff you're able to do. A blog about hidden things in demos? Hell yeah I'd read that :)

ringofyre: from what I remember, the reason you were lambasted when you first arrived here was nothing to do with your lack of releases (although I'm sure that would have increased people's tolerance levels) - it was that for a long time you showed no intention of fitting in with the community (like deciding that your free speech right to spam the random image thread was more important than the fact that you were annoying the tits off everyone). Happily for everyone concerned, you got better. :-) But frankly, I don't think your experience was particularly representative, or an example of the community not being welcoming.

Fair call Garg - I really need to go to a party, but in my neck of the woods they're few & far between.
I've tried to organise a pubmeet in the past to no success (I've lived thru a 2 person b3ta-bash & survived!), so I'm not afraid to cross the RL/net divide. If you know of any West Aussies I may not, feel free to give them my pouet registered email (with my permission).
I'm all for playing more of a part in the scene.

@mog - what you said about dfox & wysiwtf (& to a much lesser point me) was what I was trying to say about actions speaking louder than words.
I'm not a blogger - but I'll be here for as long as I'm welcome.

Apologies if you didn't like my input gasman.
But welcoming any n00b be them a prod-master or a image-thread-poster shouldn't really matter - treat them like shit just cause they don't know the patois or "in-jokes" and you'll turn them away.
In any community (forum/bbs) that will always lead to them walking away.

If you don't know what I mean search for BlackSheep8Btit and see some of the shit he copped. And he was keen to make some demos.

hey i also helped organizing a party not that long ago! ;)

on the serious note: i think people not doing actual demowork do also belong to the community, it enhances them. i dont really mind if people see me as a scener, a scene enthusiast or a blabbering pain in the ass but we all add up to make this what it is.

also i didnt experience any hatred towards noobies.. sure some are over their head release crap and are butthurt when they are told so, but in that state they usually have made their first steps here or have been watching the demoscene for quite some time already. the last two times (probably more) a newcomer asked how to start or do things on the bbs the responses were mostly encouraging and helpful.
dont paint a picture thats not true (anymore?).

the tone is sometimes a bit harsh but thats nothing compared to "usual internet standards" (read: open communities with a lot lower average age).

ringoffyre: the AU scene is alive and flourishing, getting bigger every year. Admittedly smaller in WA than the east coast, but there's a few guys - especially oldskool guys - in adelaide which may be more accessible. The adelaide crew arew are very lovely and passionate.

adrian (e64) is one of the most prominent demosceners in WA, and a great person to boot. The other old nullarbor guys still pop up occasionally. A good person to ask would be jazzcat^onslaught, who's based in TAS but has been publishing diskmags for decades. He seems to know everybody!

Syntax'12 will be happening on 17th & 18th November in Melbourne, at the minute tiger have some flights during that week for about $150-. We would love to see you there if you can at all make it. There's also flashback in Sydney, which is a great new party which happens every june.
join the "australian sceners" facebook group, probably a good place to start, and #auscene on ircnet is active too. Hopefully see you at a party soon!

Thanks Gaia - I've been to #auscene before.
Getting a leave pass for an interstate party would be a MAJOR thing for me let alone the spondoolies.
I tried to setup a meet with some of the WA sceners but conflict of time/activities. I've got their emails - including kwook - might try again soon.

style^chrome is in WA too. top bloke!

That was pretty much everyone's point 3 or 4 pages ago.


Yes, because Optimus is always so concise. ;) There's also this and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm not aware of.

still, what's blogs and outreach and all that mumbojumbo gotta do with a brush up of pouet?

Dears friends, mark this day red in your calendars, the day when Maali asked to please stay on topic :)

+1 Smash
To quote myself over at the Panamerican Demosceners group:
"Just make something. We believe in you. Use a different pseudonym than usual if you think it really will be crap. I've done that before. I've a fistful of pseudonyms. : D"
[for the record, all these things were graphics. working on music. need to divide time between improving existing skills and gaining new ones.]

As for Pouet and scene.org and the rest, I've said I'm willing to help, but I cannot and will not go leaping into this on my own.
If anyone decides to do something that I can assist with with my orga skills, you know how to contact me.

I shall now await folks desisting from busting up the same horse skeleton as has been used for football multiple times this year, decade, and in the previous century.

: D

not. *wry*

Also, good comment mog, heh.

It really doesn't. The argument "I'm still here, so clearly everything is fine" is not only wrong, but also naive, since people's experiences clearly differ; along with their starting points.

The comment I made in the compo studio, from which this thread got its name, was made in an effort to point out what is painfully obvious to anyone watching from outside the eye of the storm: the demoscene needs somewhere to send people who ask what the demoscene is and how to get involved in it. Some people might send those people to Pouet -- I choose not to.

Oh my, in these dark ages of information inaccessability they have no chance in hell to find that out. It's all way too underground, dude. You need to know secret handshakes and stuff. ;)

(Yeah, let's derail the 1928th thread about how pouet sucks to become the 453th thread about the merits of outreach.)

(wtf, I just noticed that Hugi has a hilarious eight pages long article on Wikipedia. Does Maali know? ;))

tomaes: are you suggesting that reading a book about anatomy will motivate people to become surgeons?

: D

but possibly rapists!

Make more demos!

That was a weird analogy. "Learning by doing" surgeons. Say hello to Dr. Nick. :P

sigh. analogy whatever, he has a point.

someone end this by posting ponies please.

where's knoeki with the ponies?

tomaes: while I appreciate the subtle art of irony as much as the next guy, pointing people to a dead Wikipedia article ("dead" = static, no community), a dead FAQ ("dead" = seriously outdated and pretty irrelevant, apart from historic research) or a dead info-site ("dead" = dead.. old, outdated, irrelevant) is just the point: anywhere you can send them -- and you pretty much listed the three repeat offenders -- is dead. What isn't entirely dead is Pouet -- but, Pouet also has the trolls and the randomness.

So the question still stands.