pouët.net

@TLM: I actually think your test is interesting and revealing, but please, if you want quality people provide quality tests. If you don't it's like saying the applicant you don't value them. Typos inconsciously remind of incorrect software, and it's small stuff that count.

ponce:
I could not agree more with you about that. I actually changed the test right after I saw your post. I realize typos are perceived as sloppiness and, believe me, I do everything I can to avoid them - but hey, nobody's perfect.

Regarding the quality test for quality people, the initial idea behind the test was to filter most of the below-average programmers with zero effort from my side. I'm aware that this can be seen as arrogancy, however, I'm really trying to better time manage myself and this fire-and-forget test thing really works for me.

Regarding making the applicant feel I don't value them - I agree, point taken.

If I was presented that test when applying for a job, that'd probably be a job I'd not want to apply for :-)

I don't think the test has any decent value for looking at "good programmers"... as a personality test, maybe (you need to stand this if you want to work here), but as a programming test is quite stupid.

The only decent question IMHO, is #4.

Of course, if it works for you, then that's fine

If somebody *passes* this test, he is probably good for the position of head surgeon at a nazi concentration camp.

That's a *lovely* word. Almost like poetry. Especially given the supplied context, "Aah, a head! Let's see!"

TLM's test is half good and the rest is akin to a trivia quiz. at least the candidate was allowed to use wikipedia for the regex. can't you ask the guy some design questions instead of a brainfuck test? sheesh.

i would have a very hard time phrasing a good design question on paper. it works well in interviews, because the applicant can ask domain questions like "ok soo, can the clowns hold multiple tennis balls at once?"

skrebbel: but in real life, you have colleagues, the internets, and other sources of information. it's not all about what you know, but also about how you acquire knowledge.

If I would receive that test, I'd seriously ask how much of that crap is needed for the job. Or much rather, I'd slam it on the manager's desk and leave.
There goes an experienced and good coder, because the test was offending. Brainfuck? You gotta be kidding me.

If the applicant feels offended by a test, he is not suited for the job. What would you do if you got an assignment at work that offends you? At work you have to do what your boss wants you to do.

a.k.a. the Nuremberg-defense.

lol

Apparently a very modest one, too!

depends how desperate you are... oh fuck I hate this shit11
but lol
You know wha? fuck tah shit..
I can't
why
Because I am stuck here
FCUK

But yeah it really depends.
Some friend doesn't accept that they test him. What, I have so many years experience, I have done this and that, are we in school? Do you deny my knowledge?
Me, I don't care and I am desperate now, so I would just try to do my best.
Though, I am scared, I am fed up, I don't want to think.

Looks like you're drunk too.

If i got a job as a programmer and my boss would want me to write code in Brainfuck, I'd probably leave that job in case that boss didn't have a superior to fire him.

also, what Gargaj said :-)

Convince the boss that that's not really the way to go and save him a fortune in the process, duh. One EHEC fiasco can bankrupt the whole burger place instead of just one job, you know ;)

I have to disagree. Even though the whole test starts to be in my limits of "how much time do I want to waste while applying for job" the brainfuck question is really a great problem solving task since I would guess that 9/10 applicants don't understand the language before taking the test.

...but if the employer wants a brainfuck coder to code brainfuck for living then I would run the hell out of the building.

I wish I was.

I'm in two minds about this Brainfuck question. On the one hand, it's basically the equivalent of scribbling "HA HA MOTHERFUCKER I'M MAKING YOU ANSWER PURPOSELY OBTUSE AND ANNOYING QUESTIONS BECAUSE I CAN" on the question paper in crayon.

On the other hand, having to write a 0...99 loop in Brainfuck probably isn't actually the most annoying coding problem you'll be faced with in your working life, and the ability to get past the initial "WTF? Screw that" reaction and get stuck into an icky problem is a desirable quality for an employee.

On the other other hand, I suspect that people who have encountered Brainfuck before are at a massive advantage when answering this question. But then again, maybe the type of person who dabbles with esoteric languages in their free time is exactly the type of person you're looking for. So, um, yeah. I'm in four minds about this Brainfuck question...

i'd hire you just because you have three hands and are therefore 50% more efficient than all other applicants

it all depends on who you wanna hire - someone who gives you shit if you're wrong on someone who shuts up and does whatever you say.

on second thought, it depends on how often you're wrong.

Just a comment: I have personally tried the BF question as I wouldn't want to test someone on a question that I didn't solve. With no brainfuck preliminary knowledge I was able to solve it in several min and I actually enjoined solving it. I guess that people how enjoy programming will actually enjoy this little challange.