pouët.net

I've just browsed the archives and watched a few of the releases from that OVER THERE party. I hope you guys had a GREAT time AT the party place, since the productions are worse than those released at Kindergar_d_en.

A side note - how come there are so many wild demos and more or less no REAL demos?

i think they applied the rules from that one article in Hugi 29....

<potential flamebait, handle with care>

its not rich's fault that ppl try to get the radeons using werkzeug

i bet rich thanks god that dan still feels guilty about not participating on a democompo. then again, he probably is too clueless to care.

</potential flamebait, handle with care>

isn't it just the basic american way? a "quick fix" rather than hard work? :)

because americans are not germans.

"Like all americans, FAST!" -Marge Simpson

must be an eastern from central europe thing then, couz portuguese are known for the last minute "quick fix"'es too.

wikipedia'ted under "desenrascanço"

That Pilgrimage stuff sucks indeed.

well, we can't really blame them. they don't have a scene, right? i think it's cool that they are trying to build one though, and i wish pilgrimage a great future :)

i'm not complaining about the party as such, i'm complaining about the releases.

Complaining? ...on Pouet? You?

No! Surely you kid!

Kg prods were art, i wonder if the first place at pilgrimage also was a wz prod.

Most releases this year have sucked, but surely you don't expect people to make good demos since a joke demo can win Breakpoint do you?

I just wish joke demos had a bit of humour content and originality to them instead of the usual crap for the sake of crap.

(Underline BB code doesn't apply and I messed it up anyway)

Most releases this year have sucked, but surely you don't expect people to make good demos since a joke demo can win Breakpoint do you?

I just wish joke demos had a bit of humour content and originality to them instead of the usual crap for the sake of crap.

(This is how I meant to write it)

agreed.

No, its because DEMOSCENE = BOOZE. (and BOOZE -> PRAY in certain regions)

so which half release did you like, ra5mus? The 'no beer at american parties' joke prod?

You euros have it lucky, that you've got so many people crammed into a tiny land mass. We have to go a lot farther to gather people together than you do.

Quisten, the 1st place prod wasn't WZ, at least, it didn't have the branding and loader bar. Nor was the 2nd place.

You euros have it lucky, that you've got so many people crammed into a tiny land mass. We have to go a lot farther to gather people together than you do.

not necessarily.
there probably were people from Utah who travelled less than 200km to get to SLC.
on the other hand, i already travelled almost 5000 kilometres because parties this year (bp04 -> 2*1041, asm04 -> 1423) and the year's not over yet...

once again it's not about EU or USA, it's about where people organize parties.

For a medium sized party, Pilgrimage 2004 had quite a nice selection of submissions all around. As of right now, Pilgrimage holds the record for the biggest and best demoparty ever held in the USA, ever. It still has a ways to go before it reaches the level of NAID 96, but with the right attitude and effort, it can get there.

The majority of the best demo productions (IMHO) this year were presented at Assembly, especially in the 4K division. You know, the place where everyone says no "real" demoscener attends. The place for the "gamer lamers".

The place where every "real" demoscener attends supposedly has a jokedemo entry win first prize.

And so-fucking-what?

Pilgrimage was a blast and we'll do it again next year. That's what matters.

yeh, i dont really get this stuff either. I mean, let the americans have their party.. even if the quality sucks for european standards, it still doesnt deserve to be flame-bait... It's not worth the bother, we should spend that time on doing non-jokedemos for reasonable parties here, so they we dont have to complain about a dying scene or that most releases are some percentage of utter crap.

oh, and remember Renaissance and Tran for their nice demos, not all american stuff has to be bad :)

Nevermind that the music and other compos were pretty good.

In case you haven't noticed, musicians and gfx have outnumbered coders 10:1 if not more since the mid 90s. Pay attention to something other than demos once in awhile.

The releases are 10 times better than other parties out here. Especially since a horrible linux demo won sb99 ;)

Ok, I'll tell you something: People are just annoyed by the mass of useless threads about pilgrimage. RaD Man acts like an attention whore which annoys people. Many people would be friendly and say "Hey, there is a demoscene parties in the USA, let's support them." but then again:

• ONLY 24 HOURS UNTIL PILGRIMAGE 2004!
  
• Pilgrimage 2004: How many candies in the jar?
  
• Pilgrimage tickets -- Discount ends in 48 hrs.
  
• Pilgrimage 2004 tix now on sale!
  
• Poor Utah Teapot
  
• 2 Compos added to Pilgrimage!
  
• The ARTS: Episode 5 -- Featuring Legalize/Pilgrimage!
  
• ...
  

quick search

well your party needs to be advertized well if it's held in usa :)
well, using 'well' two times in a row is .. well.. well, forget it.

This US vs Europe bullshit has got to stop, it's ridiculous. The Europeans have to realise that US people have to compete against a scene that has had time to mature and grow up without having every little thing picked apart and critiqued.

And the US people have to realise they're coming in at the bottom and take things on the chin once in a while. Legalize, you do yourself and US sceners no good when you come out with things like "Look out, Eurotrash", no matter whether it was supposed to be a joke or not. This is no disrespect to you, or to the work you're doing raising awareness of the demoscene over here, but you come off as a jerk. In fact, I still remember having an argument with you on Usenet years ago, and while I have no idea what the subject was now, the feeling that you're an arrogant SOB who always thinks he's right stayed with me, and that's what came to mind when I saw your name around again now that I've come back to following the scene. Again, this isn't supposed to be a flame; I'd love to meet up with you and buy you an intoxicating substance of your choice sometime, but I'm just alerting you to the fact that you have a serious PR issue. I mean, a friend should tell you if you have spinach in your teeth or something, right? :)

Elitism has always been part of the scene, but it usually stays on the side of your output being what you're judged on, not the country you're from. Some Europeans seem to have reached the stage where they think they can just release joke demos. They don't make you look cool, they make you look like an arrogant tosser. On the flip side, US people shouldn't set themselves up for ridicule. The demopaja/wz debate will rage on, so why not avoid controversy and prove you can do something without a demotool instead? While the tools have come a long way since DemoMaker, you're still going to be open to criticism for using them, so don't give the Europeans ammunition ;) And again, the Europeans shouldn't dismiss maturing US productions, cut them some slack.

I really don't know why I bothered spending time away from working to write this, because I know it'll be ignored, because flaming people is the easy way out, and besides, I'm a nobody, but god, it's so depressing to come on here and see a bunch of kids swinging their dicks.

Oh, and what MadenMann says about the spamming. Sheesh, that was a lot of posts. You certainly do need to advertise, but that was just annoying - and I'd argue redundant, because most of the people you were reaching on here and scene.org and wherever either already knew it was coming and were planning on going, or knew it was coming and had no chance of going because it was halfway across the globe.

The extra promotion effort should have gone to fringe tech sites, like /., gamdev, etc.