10th Annual Scene.org Awards - Public Choice voting
category: general [glöplog]
blunt? it were pointy shoes!
this is my new favourite thread on pouet.
I respectfully agree with rez wanting to be removed from the awards if he doesn't want to receive it, it's his production and he should have control over the purposes it is used for. What for instance the razzies does, is using the names of a famous movie to draw attention to their own arrangement, and I think we (the demoscene) should be above such petty tactics.
However, the scene.org awards are owned by the kids arranging them, and they can of course do as they choose (barring legal issues) - i'd have respected rez' request, but that is of course up to the jury / owners of the awards. It is not a democratic organisation in any way, its a council of the chosen few :)
I am sure the above can be countered using some kind of internet logic and mombashing-strategy, so please regard it as personal opinion - not an attempt to "prove" anything or "be right".
nic0/DUB
I respectfully agree with rez wanting to be removed from the awards if he doesn't want to receive it, it's his production and he should have control over the purposes it is used for. What for instance the razzies does, is using the names of a famous movie to draw attention to their own arrangement, and I think we (the demoscene) should be above such petty tactics.
However, the scene.org awards are owned by the kids arranging them, and they can of course do as they choose (barring legal issues) - i'd have respected rez' request, but that is of course up to the jury / owners of the awards. It is not a democratic organisation in any way, its a council of the chosen few :)
I am sure the above can be countered using some kind of internet logic and mombashing-strategy, so please regard it as personal opinion - not an attempt to "prove" anything or "be right".
nic0/DUB
nic0: you're wrong because your mom's a dwarf
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That production, as well as any of the other production listed by the people who voted in the web poll are welcome to refuse to receive the award, should they win the public poll that they were voted for.I respectfully agree with rez wanting to be removed from the awards if he doesn't want to receive it, it's his production and he should have control over the purposes it is used for.
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What tactics? The Public Choice-award is a "tactic" now? Boy, this thread is beyond interesting at this point :)What for instance the razzies does, is using the names of a famous movie to draw attention to their own arrangement, and I think we (the demoscene) should be above such petty tactics.
Rez, who on earth you think you are? There are dozens of incomparably more important, skilled, and legendary sceners sitting quiet and enjoying another scene.org competition, and you are coming out with your ridiculous requests regarding such a well-thought event? It's like some 99th grade curling player would request to remove his "results" from world olympics rankings. Laughable. Just sit back to your closet and, for the sake of decency, at least pretend that you appreciate being a part of such a honorable event.
I don't know if I have to cry or to laugh or to do the both at same time ( ° 3°)
On page 12 I'm probably late with a serious post but whatever :)
I see the root of the problem here:
...which is true for all but the public's choice category.
Most likely the original intention of this category was to be a "Sceners' choice" award - that is to allow demosceners (ie. people who have at least a slight understanding what makes a good demo) to vote for their favorites.
Having a "Public's choice" award defeats that purpose by design, since everyone and their dog can and will vote. Expecting that namevoting won't happen here is pretty naive I'd say. Also, using it as a means of outreach will just skew the result even more, as more people are voting who don't have a clue about demos.
It is what it is - a popularity contest. However, while popularity within the demoscene usually equals exceptional productions, popularity outside of it likely favors those who have the most friends or fans, inside and outside of our community. This is something you can't possibly control, and if you don't like the outcome because it's against the philosophy and values of the awards, then the category should probably be removed.
I see the root of the problem here:
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The Scene.org Awards honors the very best of the previous year
of demoscene releases.
...which is true for all but the public's choice category.
Most likely the original intention of this category was to be a "Sceners' choice" award - that is to allow demosceners (ie. people who have at least a slight understanding what makes a good demo) to vote for their favorites.
Having a "Public's choice" award defeats that purpose by design, since everyone and their dog can and will vote. Expecting that namevoting won't happen here is pretty naive I'd say. Also, using it as a means of outreach will just skew the result even more, as more people are voting who don't have a clue about demos.
It is what it is - a popularity contest. However, while popularity within the demoscene usually equals exceptional productions, popularity outside of it likely favors those who have the most friends or fans, inside and outside of our community. This is something you can't possibly control, and if you don't like the outcome because it's against the philosophy and values of the awards, then the category should probably be removed.
And BTW I want to express how glad I am that scene.org awards are more like monarchy than democracy. It is mandatory to have people who know their stuff to define what is good and what is not. Having a statistical idiot to decide with his worthless vote what is a technical achievement would be a plain mockery.
rutra80 is a fake account or what? this double-troll seems to be too big to be real.
rutra80 is literally dubmood and the troll eats itself like that one snake!
Also, I just ripped the loudest fart and I think it seriously deafened me :(
Also, I just ripped the loudest fart and I think it seriously deafened me :(
Gloom: I really like you and the whole scene.org awards crew (personally as well as uh, demoscenewise), so I will not get drawn into a long winding discussion about it, just stating my opinion... I am aware that he can refuse to accept the award, and merely stated that I would have handled this otherwise :)
The choice of the word "tactics" was a bad one, but my english is not the best - perhaps I should have used "popular approaches" instead or something, to communicate that the Razzies have a somewhat uhm, different aim than the scene.org awards. I did not intend to imply anything evil and sneaky-like, and apologize if it came across like that :)
The choice of the word "tactics" was a bad one, but my english is not the best - perhaps I should have used "popular approaches" instead or something, to communicate that the Razzies have a somewhat uhm, different aim than the scene.org awards. I did not intend to imply anything evil and sneaky-like, and apologize if it came across like that :)
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we have 9 pages
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It took until page 11
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On page 12
I guess now is a good time to point everyone to http://pouet.net/account2.php and change "topic.php posts" to 100 or something. I don't know about you but all I'm seeing is three pages. Safes me a lot of clicking.
I want my vote removed , is that possible? ;)
Looking forward to "we accidently didnt remove your scene.org nomination" intro ;)
Ok just kidding..
Welcome to THE social media era of THE demoscene. When Facebook Gets à production database pouet Could be even more obsolete.. ;)
Anyway, public choice is most of the time About most popular and not always About THE best.
Why did you cast your vote ? If you cant respect The possible outcome than dont Vote.. ;)
End of Compo.
Looking forward to "we accidently didnt remove your scene.org nomination" intro ;)
Ok just kidding..
Welcome to THE social media era of THE demoscene. When Facebook Gets à production database pouet Could be even more obsolete.. ;)
Anyway, public choice is most of the time About most popular and not always About THE best.
Why did you cast your vote ? If you cant respect The possible outcome than dont Vote.. ;)
End of Compo.
An, i second zooms comment above which i just read now..
I want to join in on the fun too!
When I learned I had piggybag'ed to a nomination (only created music for the intro that was probably the reason for the nomination) I got so damn proud that I posted it on facebook. Not calling for votes or linking to a voting-page. But linking to the production. Demoscene is really a great part of my life, and friends, family and colleagues share an actual interest in what I do (whenever they manage to understand)
I don't care if people couldn't care less about the awards or if some might find it inapropriate to share my excitement on facebook. I think one of the reasons this debate has been so heated, is that it brushes something, that actually is a pretty big part of our lives. We spend hundreds of hours working on productions, countless days away from wives, husbands and family to attend parties. The appreciation of the work we create is often the main driving factor for most of us. It might not be the case with all the scene "rockstars", but to the rest of us - this actually does matter. I don't mind if people doesn't care about their nominations, but expressing their disgust about it, actually does mean something to those who care about it.
Inconsideration shouldn't be an issue to a subculture with a reputation of openess and tons of people doing voluntary work just to amuse others.
When I learned I had piggybag'ed to a nomination (only created music for the intro that was probably the reason for the nomination) I got so damn proud that I posted it on facebook. Not calling for votes or linking to a voting-page. But linking to the production. Demoscene is really a great part of my life, and friends, family and colleagues share an actual interest in what I do (whenever they manage to understand)
I don't care if people couldn't care less about the awards or if some might find it inapropriate to share my excitement on facebook. I think one of the reasons this debate has been so heated, is that it brushes something, that actually is a pretty big part of our lives. We spend hundreds of hours working on productions, countless days away from wives, husbands and family to attend parties. The appreciation of the work we create is often the main driving factor for most of us. It might not be the case with all the scene "rockstars", but to the rest of us - this actually does matter. I don't mind if people doesn't care about their nominations, but expressing their disgust about it, actually does mean something to those who care about it.
Inconsideration shouldn't be an issue to a subculture with a reputation of openess and tons of people doing voluntary work just to amuse others.
it has been verified by pouet.net logs that roto80 is actually a fakeuser created by gloom
*just doing some random accusing, inspired by gloom*
*just doing some random accusing, inspired by gloom*
I just saw the logs JuvenileShithead has verified.
Punqtured I love you.
i dont love punqtured (except in a manly way) but i +2 his post =)
@Punktured: you depicted better than possible to do the exact vision of demoscene I share and care about.
I spent an awesome time on coding, every night since two years, i slept something like 4 or 5 hours just because I always want to polish a shader for the last time before closing the computer. So, when the prod is out, of course I want to show it to the entire world, this is the root of our movement, to SHOW to people how cool is the thing we have done :)
So that's the main reason why we "advertise" about our prod life (release, nomination, etc...), we just wanted to have our prod seen by more and more people because we have the chance to touch a wider audience than any other group.
It's because I respect a lot the Scene.org Award that I want to be removed, nobody will be able to say that the "public choice" award is faked if our prods are no more listed.
Also, to avoid any future claim, I already removed any links to this year nomination and voting from our pages.
I think now everybody is bored. I am.
and sad too with the kind of comment I can read from rutra80.
Sometimes I wonder why we are spending so much time in our life making things when you have people who destroy all your motivation in one second.
I spent an awesome time on coding, every night since two years, i slept something like 4 or 5 hours just because I always want to polish a shader for the last time before closing the computer. So, when the prod is out, of course I want to show it to the entire world, this is the root of our movement, to SHOW to people how cool is the thing we have done :)
So that's the main reason why we "advertise" about our prod life (release, nomination, etc...), we just wanted to have our prod seen by more and more people because we have the chance to touch a wider audience than any other group.
It's because I respect a lot the Scene.org Award that I want to be removed, nobody will be able to say that the "public choice" award is faked if our prods are no more listed.
Also, to avoid any future claim, I already removed any links to this year nomination and voting from our pages.
I think now everybody is bored. I am.
and sad too with the kind of comment I can read from rutra80.
Sometimes I wonder why we are spending so much time in our life making things when you have people who destroy all your motivation in one second.
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it has been verified by pouet.net logs that roto80 is actually a fakeuser created by gloom
*just doing some random accusing, inspired by gloom*
You're being ridiculous now, even though it was meant as a joke. You're really not helping your case here.
You guys are worse than Polish politicians, seriously.
There's nothing wrong with posting on Facebook or Twitter about your nomination.
No, really it's cool, because that spreads the word about the demoscene!
The thing is, many followers associate Razor1911 with a cracking group, not demogroup.
So, when they see you asking for votes, they will vote, even if many of them didn't see other demos, or even your intro.
It's that "hey, let's help our famous idols" way of thinking. It's not your fault.
Also, I'm sure there are rzr1911 followers who voted knowing a thing or two about demoscene.
Who knows, maybe some of them discovered demoscene thanks to you?
I agree that some of the awards guys may seem a bit harsh, but as far as I know, they're decent people, who work really hard to make it happen. Those are just nerves.
And if that botnet story is true, then that's prolly just one of your great followers who wanted to "help". This is also not your fault!
That being said, I don't really know the whole story behind all this, just my two cents.
Rez, keep making intros.
Also, what's the big problem with this discussion we're having right here? It's happening on the internet, not at the demoparty.
Therefore, Poe's law applies.
So, why can't we grab a beer/cola/coffee/tea at some party and just talk about this?
Making a demo about it would be also a great way to relieve the stress... :)
My post prolly won't help, hell, I guess it will be ignored. But I really can't stand seeing decent people acting hostile like this.
Thank you if you spent your time reading this.
There's nothing wrong with posting on Facebook or Twitter about your nomination.
No, really it's cool, because that spreads the word about the demoscene!
The thing is, many followers associate Razor1911 with a cracking group, not demogroup.
So, when they see you asking for votes, they will vote, even if many of them didn't see other demos, or even your intro.
It's that "hey, let's help our famous idols" way of thinking. It's not your fault.
Also, I'm sure there are rzr1911 followers who voted knowing a thing or two about demoscene.
Who knows, maybe some of them discovered demoscene thanks to you?
I agree that some of the awards guys may seem a bit harsh, but as far as I know, they're decent people, who work really hard to make it happen. Those are just nerves.
And if that botnet story is true, then that's prolly just one of your great followers who wanted to "help". This is also not your fault!
That being said, I don't really know the whole story behind all this, just my two cents.
Rez, keep making intros.
Also, what's the big problem with this discussion we're having right here? It's happening on the internet, not at the demoparty.
Therefore, Poe's law applies.
So, why can't we grab a beer/cola/coffee/tea at some party and just talk about this?
Making a demo about it would be also a great way to relieve the stress... :)
My post prolly won't help, hell, I guess it will be ignored. But I really can't stand seeing decent people acting hostile like this.
Thank you if you spent your time reading this.
we're still going? :) in light of the revised rules, i thought smash's summary pretty much nailed it:
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- asking for votes on facebook is fine (most people will have moved on to a video of a cat before they actually get around to voting anyway)
- if you win because you ran around the streets of your home town begging everyone to vote for you in exchange for a couple of werthers originals, it's fine but you're a duschbag and the win probably doesnt mean all that much - so it's up to you if you really want to do this
- making a script to create an account and generate a vote for your prod every time someone clicks on a video of a cat is not fine
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zing!You guys are worse than Polish politicians, seriously.
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And if that botnet story is true, then that's prolly just one of your great followers who wanted to "help". This is also not your fault!
That being said, I don't really know the whole story behind all this, just my two cents.
@tomoya: yeah, I asked Melwyn about that by email yesterday but I still have no answers yet...
Since nobody from scene.org board told me about that last year and this year too, and I "discovered" that we already cheated by reading it here and on facebook I still want explanation about the reality of what happened.