Guns, world view etc.
category: general [glöplog]
we should talk here about the stuff we did in the tragedy thread before. because it does not stop anyways, though asked 100 times i just open this thread.
so my opinion on guns: i don't think if everyone carries a gun, it would be the world a safer place. it just raises the risk, that when someone wents mad, he suddenly already has a gun, and can go rampant with no effort. sure if the kids had a gun they could prevent such a huge massacre. but i don't know if they would abuse it somewhere else, since they are kids, so image gang wars etc…
my opinion on world view: this is so complex that most people don't bother thinking about it. but everytime you buy something from international corporations you support certain situations somewhere else in the world. eg. almost all eletric products use ressources which are not paid fair for. or the investors buying the only fertile land in africa to speculate on food, etc… you know it's all a mess, and in my opinion it's the consumer who has to take more care. why do you need every year a new mobile, computer etc. would you pay more if you knew it was not bought with blood?
so my opinion on guns: i don't think if everyone carries a gun, it would be the world a safer place. it just raises the risk, that when someone wents mad, he suddenly already has a gun, and can go rampant with no effort. sure if the kids had a gun they could prevent such a huge massacre. but i don't know if they would abuse it somewhere else, since they are kids, so image gang wars etc…
my opinion on world view: this is so complex that most people don't bother thinking about it. but everytime you buy something from international corporations you support certain situations somewhere else in the world. eg. almost all eletric products use ressources which are not paid fair for. or the investors buying the only fertile land in africa to speculate on food, etc… you know it's all a mess, and in my opinion it's the consumer who has to take more care. why do you need every year a new mobile, computer etc. would you pay more if you knew it was not bought with blood?
Good thing that this discussion moved away.
Here in .nl today there was a collum writen about someone who said we should abandon all shooting ranges and gunclubs. Another person argued there should be a ban on violent video games, or at least Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Stuff like this always makes me a bit disappointed. Why does no one think about the question : what is the main reason why this happend? What could we do to stop this from happening ever again? No instead people want to see random bans issued. It is as absurd as it is sad.
I found images like this on page seven while the pages before it all explained about the situation in Norway. Amy Winehouse followed some pages later in the enetertainment-section and this was a free, low quality newspaper. So at least here in .nl it is way bigger than a tsunami or a car-accident.
Here in .nl today there was a collum writen about someone who said we should abandon all shooting ranges and gunclubs. Another person argued there should be a ban on violent video games, or at least Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Stuff like this always makes me a bit disappointed. Why does no one think about the question : what is the main reason why this happend? What could we do to stop this from happening ever again? No instead people want to see random bans issued. It is as absurd as it is sad.
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Agreed. Making jokes about guns at this point trolling or not is just utterly tasteless.I understand poking harmless fun against somebody like Adok or optimus, who must have a fairly thick skin to take all this shit year in year out. But this is way tasteless. anyway.
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Now the media is treating it more like they would treat a tsunami or a big train-accident.
I found images like this on page seven while the pages before it all explained about the situation in Norway. Amy Winehouse followed some pages later in the enetertainment-section and this was a free, low quality newspaper. So at least here in .nl it is way bigger than a tsunami or a car-accident.
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Here in .nl today there was a collum writen about someone who said we should abandon all shooting ranges and gunclubs. Another person argued there should be a ban on violent video games, or at least Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. Stuff like this always makes me a bit disappointed. Why does no one think about the question : what is the main reason why this happend? What could we do to stop this from happening ever again? No instead people want to see random bans issued. It is as absurd as it is sad.
Word. In a similar fashion, we have MPs here in France calling for filtering on pornographic sites, with a possibility to explicitly ask your ISP to unfilter a given site for you. These guys just have no clue.
When a guy orders tons of fertilizer and the company selling that stuff reports to the police plus that guy already owns weapons it might make sense to pay him a visit...
Though I agree on "it's people killing people, not guns" I wouldn't mind all shooting ranges, gun clubs and guns in general being forbidden btw... Ban guns except for the police, hunters etc.
Though I agree on "it's people killing people, not guns" I wouldn't mind all shooting ranges, gun clubs and guns in general being forbidden btw... Ban guns except for the police, hunters etc.
I have no problem with shooting ranges personally, as long as they don't rent out weapons or allow you to bring your own.
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When a guy orders tons of fertilizer and the company selling that stuff reports to the police plus that guy already owns weapons it might make sense to pay him a visit...
at least in the finnish countryside i would be surprised if someone ordering fertilizer wouldn't own a few guns, hunting is a popular sport.
I second Tarmil
Numtek please dont act stupid. I was refering to HOW the medias wrote about the terroristattacks in norway, not in what order the news lined up. Second, please dont act stupid, that is a trainaccident in china. If whatever happens is in a country that people dont have any real relation to, medias dont give it any priority.
Rär: the police actually payed him a visit but it was regarding a former weed-plantation in his barn by the previous owner. The terrorist invited the cops over for a cup of cofee and shared his world-view with them. Problem with cops is that their worldview is already pretty fucked up so they apperantly thought that he was a nice guy.
I can see there being cases where you need to own a gun, but why would you need an automatic weapon at home? Only case I can think of is if you live under a dictatorship, and you're expecting a war to break out in which you'll be fighting. Which isn't the case in most parts of europe.
Did they have a nice chat with a cup of coffee? And they didn't notice he was some sort of nutter?
Seriously. I don't know how to solve the problem. Maybe teach people not to be assholes or whatever.
Besides that: Religion kills. Has and always will. Screw those religious fanatics.
Seriously. I don't know how to solve the problem. Maybe teach people not to be assholes or whatever.
Besides that: Religion kills. Has and always will. Screw those religious fanatics.
Religion is just a "catalyzer". The root of the problem is that people are greedy, and to fulfill your greed you need to exercise power.
In my opinion (as i always tell ;D) this is a bahavior left over from times where this was really needed for survival. but suddenly we invented things, build up a "culture" our way of live totaly changed. but our bodies did not have the time to adapt to this fast paced change. and then our way of life became a mechanism of "natural selection" itself, which means that oddly those actually least adapted to our modern life (which should be altruistic to some extent (like support regions of the world that don't have the possiblity to grow enough food itself, while the west throws away millions tons food every year) are priorized by the "natural selection".
you can't change this, unless you kill off the monkeys amongs us. like you would kill off a dangerous virus or parasite.
and now don't come with that "argument": but you would go down to their niveau, and are not 1 bit better!.
so i should sit there and talk about peace, but when i look on the world all i see is massacre? my wish to kill the massmurderes is not of bloodlust for great justice. but as you can imagine, probably the half population of earth has to be extinted before the "moraly good" people can create a new world. and this is not possible.
reminds me abit of burn after reading "so what do we learn from this?" - "i don't know"
well, human race did never learn of it's failures, everything happens in circles, and it always will.
i wonder if the robots would do better then us. (since you can assume all robots could actually be one collective AI, they maybe would to better)
In my opinion (as i always tell ;D) this is a bahavior left over from times where this was really needed for survival. but suddenly we invented things, build up a "culture" our way of live totaly changed. but our bodies did not have the time to adapt to this fast paced change. and then our way of life became a mechanism of "natural selection" itself, which means that oddly those actually least adapted to our modern life (which should be altruistic to some extent (like support regions of the world that don't have the possiblity to grow enough food itself, while the west throws away millions tons food every year) are priorized by the "natural selection".
you can't change this, unless you kill off the monkeys amongs us. like you would kill off a dangerous virus or parasite.
and now don't come with that "argument": but you would go down to their niveau, and are not 1 bit better!.
so i should sit there and talk about peace, but when i look on the world all i see is massacre? my wish to kill the massmurderes is not of bloodlust for great justice. but as you can imagine, probably the half population of earth has to be extinted before the "moraly good" people can create a new world. and this is not possible.
reminds me abit of burn after reading "so what do we learn from this?" - "i don't know"
well, human race did never learn of it's failures, everything happens in circles, and it always will.
i wonder if the robots would do better then us. (since you can assume all robots could actually be one collective AI, they maybe would to better)
@ JuvenileShithead : And what is it that bothers you in the way how the media writes about Norway?
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Rär: the police actually payed him a visit but it was regarding a former weed-plantation in his barn by the previous owner. The terrorist invited the cops over for a cup of cofee and shared his world-view with them. Problem with cops is that their worldview is already pretty fucked up so they apperantly thought that he was a nice guy.
You have a credible source for this? The only thing that even comes close is in the terrorist's own publication, in the entry from 2. June.
Here it is mentioned that a man estimated to be 50-60 years of age appeared taking photographs of the farm. It is the terrorist's own suggestion that he was an undercover police officer, while the man claimed to be a tourist taking pictures of the scenery. The terrorist offered the man coffee, but there is no mention of discussing any political views at all.
The police have not commented, or been asked to comment, on this in the press as far as I have noticed.
If you want to rain on the police for some reason you could at least base your accusations on facts.
Greed and the dead horse part 2. wtf. seriously.
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can you name any?regions of the world that don't have the possiblity to grow enough food itself
do you want to test my actual knowlegde of what regions starve most? do you think the starving people in africa are just made up, or what?
wel ,dessert regions for example, like just now that stuff in somalia etc? (yes somilia gave huge areas away to foreign investors, which will produce food efficiently there, but they probably export it anyways, so the actual population does not benefit from this (but lost their land on which they grew food for themselves). if you want to say they just need the proper material to use the land they have more efficiently than that's the same. noone helps them to build up a sufficient agriculture? they just drain all ressources out of the country but don't give money back (and if they give it to some corrupt assholes that don't care about their people) so that nothing can evolve.
wel ,dessert regions for example, like just now that stuff in somalia etc? (yes somilia gave huge areas away to foreign investors, which will produce food efficiently there, but they probably export it anyways, so the actual population does not benefit from this (but lost their land on which they grew food for themselves). if you want to say they just need the proper material to use the land they have more efficiently than that's the same. noone helps them to build up a sufficient agriculture? they just drain all ressources out of the country but don't give money back (and if they give it to some corrupt assholes that don't care about their people) so that nothing can evolve.
ok, somalia/east africa. did they really "give away" their food production capacity, or did they sell it?
As far as i heard (arte documentary) they gave leased the land for 50 years or something to very cheap conditions.
that might actually be true, it would fit right in with patterns seen in other ex-communist states. and it certainly fits in with what happened in neighbouring countries: land is used for other purposes than feeding the local population. but this hasn't started happening last year, it's a much older tradition, going back a few decades. so how come the population in these countries hasn't seen any significant decrease? could it be that an alternative source of food has become available to east africans since the flowers you can buy around the corner are coming from kenya instead of holland, and the strawberries we eat in winter from tanzania?
cue in the world food programme. yes, that oh-so altruistic united nations agency that is sending free food (read: the millions of tons of food the west would otherwise throw away) to starving east africans (amongst others). so what food would the average african prefer- the (almost) free food in USA or Europe branded bags, or the corn he has to pay his neighbour real money for?
africans may be largely uneducated, but they know a good deal when they see one, and so it happens they started consuming more and more "free" food from the west over the past few decades. the price for this was the dismantling of local agricultural sectors, and so it happens that african countries have no backup plan whenever a famine occurs (although they managed just fine by themselves for thousands of years before those nice santaclauses from the west came along).
so do i have a solution for that mess? quite honestly- not at all. i just happen to know a few things that *don't* work to solve problems, the most important one being sending food for prices lower than what can be produced locally. i like to believe that the money me and my family have invested in african businesses will have positive side effects, but i cannot prove this on a macro scale. i do know that our businesses have spread knowledge (welding and car mechanics to be precise) and continue to do so while generating an income for a couple of dozen african locals, and a (smaller than what we could make on the stock market) profit for us. that sure as hell sounds more constructive to me than pouring money into schemes that fuck up entire sectors of african economy. but wtf do i know...
cue in the world food programme. yes, that oh-so altruistic united nations agency that is sending free food (read: the millions of tons of food the west would otherwise throw away) to starving east africans (amongst others). so what food would the average african prefer- the (almost) free food in USA or Europe branded bags, or the corn he has to pay his neighbour real money for?
africans may be largely uneducated, but they know a good deal when they see one, and so it happens they started consuming more and more "free" food from the west over the past few decades. the price for this was the dismantling of local agricultural sectors, and so it happens that african countries have no backup plan whenever a famine occurs (although they managed just fine by themselves for thousands of years before those nice santaclauses from the west came along).
so do i have a solution for that mess? quite honestly- not at all. i just happen to know a few things that *don't* work to solve problems, the most important one being sending food for prices lower than what can be produced locally. i like to believe that the money me and my family have invested in african businesses will have positive side effects, but i cannot prove this on a macro scale. i do know that our businesses have spread knowledge (welding and car mechanics to be precise) and continue to do so while generating an income for a couple of dozen african locals, and a (smaller than what we could make on the stock market) profit for us. that sure as hell sounds more constructive to me than pouring money into schemes that fuck up entire sectors of african economy. but wtf do i know...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXzFp1lshBE
yes, i would never donate money for africa-money-collector-NGO-thieves, unless i would build a busniness "myself" there. i mean not that i generate money from this, but that i really know all my money is used for creating a lasting project there.
in my opinion the NGOs should not just collect money from western consumer, but also educate them, that they should think more globaly. because it's just a circle of burning money else. (and only the corporations profit, they actually cause the damage, but are not asked to pay for the starving populations, but random people on the street get asked (ok they support the corporations, but they probably don't know better))
imho only if the consumer comes to stop buying products of devastator corporations, something can changed (+ building up industries in africa, which can keep them self alive, without santa clauses from the west, so only a start up help that educates some workers, and they later can educate others maybe)
but that's not easy since you don't even know were stuff really comes from and where the relationships are. also it's not for the lazy, that got used to the lifestyle.
yeah, i have no solution but i always try to put that topic into minds, because usually everyone is like "what can i single lonely person do?", "why should i even care?…"
in my opinion the NGOs should not just collect money from western consumer, but also educate them, that they should think more globaly. because it's just a circle of burning money else. (and only the corporations profit, they actually cause the damage, but are not asked to pay for the starving populations, but random people on the street get asked (ok they support the corporations, but they probably don't know better))
imho only if the consumer comes to stop buying products of devastator corporations, something can changed (+ building up industries in africa, which can keep them self alive, without santa clauses from the west, so only a start up help that educates some workers, and they later can educate others maybe)
but that's not easy since you don't even know were stuff really comes from and where the relationships are. also it's not for the lazy, that got used to the lifestyle.
yeah, i have no solution but i always try to put that topic into minds, because usually everyone is like "what can i single lonely person do?", "why should i even care?…"