pouët.net

Well, I confess I didn't read whole topic. But:

Everybody thinking gun prohibition will avoid such problems is highly naive. (Do i have to believe that terrorists can't buy gun if they illegal, what kind of black humour this statement is?) Conclusion: demilitarisation is an easy way to enslavement. Let remember that after 9/11, for example, so called "more security" helped NOTHING* and similiar cases occured and will occur.

I do believe that in some states in North America such massacre couldn't happen because after first seconds at least one person would have a gun and start to defend. In Oslo people were unarmed; living human targets.

On other hand: everyday, the much more people die from car accidents, overdosing drugs or even from poverty in the poor countries (by the way, does that mean we are forced to prohibit cars or medicines?). There is no logical reason to take away another part of our freedom. It's like "fighting against drugs" politics. Simply does not help at all but behind it stays big money. Well, there is one fact contra. Europe has no experience with common carrying gun. But how to learn something without using it?

Erich Fromm noticed that XX century was one big escape from freedom. The easiest is to be not responsible for anything and letting someone, in common opinion with authority, deciding about parts of our lifes, including our money, children and so on. I doubt it's right, of course since we have freedom of expression, you can disagree.

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." - Ben Franklin

Sorry for my English. Take care, rudi.

* - there are plenty reasons, I won't explain though.

@Rudi: I hope you still have a lot of relatives left to talk with about this. Do your best, not to forget, but to live on, on to days where for sure the pain would be less. That you may be able to laugh again one day!

@Jakim: Yes that will help for sure, if everyone draws a gun and starts shooting randomly if someone fires the first shot.

Why do you gun loving faggots put your propaganda in here?? fuck your guns in your silent room, but don't annoy us with your fetish and wet dreams, ok?

To all gun nuts who say prohibition doesn't help to avoid these tragedies, go read some statistics of these kinds of shootings happening in countries with/without gun control laws. Then please kindly go fuck yourselves.

Back on topic, my sincere condolences to those personally affected by this drama.

rudi, I feel very sorry for your loss, and all I can do is send you my best wishes.

I agree a discussion about gun prohibition is not the point here. I suppose the fucktard who planned the massacre during YEARS knew exactly what he was doing, what would happen, and that nobody but him on the island would carry a fire weapon. If this place was not suitable for his craziness, he would have chosen another.

Would you please feel free to crosbow!
@ Jakim - my stance on gun control is based on numbers purely. If you look [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate]here & here then you can see that the countries with high availability of gun per capita tend to have high levels of gun crime. Hence in argument to your statement that terrorists can get illegal guns, yes but it must be a lot easier to get an illegal gun in a country where there a lots of gun anyway compared to a country where there are fewer legal weapons.
Don't get me wrong tho - having seen pics of the Anders guy tooled up with a auto-smg, gas mask and the fact that he had industrial quantities of fertilizer etc. clearly he wasn't using his farm rifle to go rabbit shooting was he.
FTR - grew up on a farm, can field-strip a rifle fast, got accuracy medals in cadets and was a member of a gun club all thru my teens. Handguns and automatic weapons are designed to do only 1 thing - kill people.

ffs - jakim the image is for cros NOT you.

Inopia. I did. I stand unconvinced because it doesnt take into concideration the mentality of the population. Canada has nearly as many registered firearms as America, key here, they force registration, yet their death toll to random shooters are only slightly higher than denmarks according to whackypedia.



many criminals operate with risk vs.gain calculations. If they know there is a high risk that lead will start flying from registered weapons if they pull their unregistered one, Most, nomatter how desperate or fucked up would reconcider doing it in the first place. it is called self preservation!

I am not a fan of guns at all. I wouldnt want one. I am a fan of reality. and all your way of thinking does is making sure that those most likely to pull a gun on another person are the only civilians who are armed.

So quite frankly, you and airheads like you can go fuck yourself. a lot of people could have been alive in Norway had just some of them had a fighting chance. They didnt because of law makers with the same defect that you have prevented it. The only one armed was.....tadaa...the dangerous criminal and cops were far away and at no help.

here is the link I meant for you.

Are you aware that South Africa, Mexico and Russia have strict gun control laws. How does that sit with your theory there?

Or how about switzerland? Are there any place in the industrialized world with more guns per civilian? Where are the crime and killing sprees that this gun control theory dictates should be with such a massive amount of arms in private hands?

What I find interesting about the guy is that he's still alive. Most (->all I've heard of) guys who randomly shoot people or blow a huge bomb like to die themselves during the act.

@eebliss: It is true that criminals (and even psychopaths) calculate risks.
But it doesn't matter if a murder weapon was registred or not, what matters is that people got murdered. And it just doesn't make any sense to introduce more deadly weapons in a society and claim that it will get safer which each additional weapon added to the pool.

Also,.. please try and have a decent discussion. Telling me that I'm "an airhead" and that "I could fuck myself" is not helping in having a civilised discussion and it isn't a very solid argument for your cause either.
Come on man, people died, have some decency please will you?

Maybe we need to move this whole anti/pro-gun issue to another thread? Out of respect for the fallen?

Also what zerkman said:
Indeed. There are always areas with less guns/ more people than average.

Yes you are right. Gun debate should be taken in another place. But in so far insults go. Just remember that I due to my convictions are a gun-nut that can go fuck himself. It wasnt targeted at you personally.

Because he think he is "right" and his actions needed and rightious. I honestly believe that this wingding think he will get a speaking appointment on the television at some point. I think he really is that deranged. He insist on being put on trial wearing his (i assume) army uniform. I wonder how the Norwegian army feels about that.

@msqrt:
Yesterday evening I got ahold of that "manifest" of the guy.
If this thing really was written by himself ( i.e. acted and planned solely, which I don't believe),
this bloke did not went "amok", meaning he was not acting in an affect situation but was carrying
out coldblooded murder - well aware that he most certainly will get arrested.

His "longterm aim" of his "resistance movement" was to induce a quote-unquote "second european renaissance" (...of an Occidental set of values, i.e. Crown and Church).
In a sick way he is trying to legitimise gruesome violence to achieve an ideology that those high-degree orders like the one he was a member of ( reportedly made it to Master ... 3rd degree, which is still at the lower "blue" end of the Swedish Rite most skandinavian Lodges follow).
They are aristocratic and intertwined with "church and order".

So it is of no surprise that he attacked a camp with youngsters of the socialist party which holds the government position at the moment.

This is getting sicker by the hour.

Hey eebilss - you win.
But wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where we could only stab, spear or club each other to death (or maybe even talk)? Rather than living in a world where the only thing that stops you dealing with a confrontation is the fact that several people around you may be armed with a gun & you are afraid of you & your family being shot?
Gun Control = 1
Naivety = 0
Humanity = -1
I live in a country where you have to have a valid reason to own a gun. I am sure that there are thousands of illegal firearms where I live.
But (& here's the kicker) @ least I know that if I have an argument with anyone in my immediate community the very worst they could try to do to me is beat, stab or club me to death.
Short answer - guns scare the fuck out of me, & so they should.

By the look of the picture contained in his published "manifest" it has some similarities to the galla uniform of the army, but it's not an official one as far as I can tell. I believe that it is either a foreign uniform (might not even be military), or a custom made uniform.

The terrorist has no connection to the army except for having completed the mandatory military service that most men in Norway his age have. This has been confirmed by army officials.

Isn't the uniform something to do with this whole "Order of Freemasons" thing, which he was a member of?

@tft:
Spot on. It's the "Full Dress" uniform of the order.
Since the High-degree orders are closely connected to royalty, nobility and the church it represents itself to the public with the aristocratic/militaristic style - just like all the british royal buffs when they celebrate some public event.
In his "compendium" at the end there's another photoshot of him wearing the ceremonial cloth of a "Master of the Craft" which is worn only "behind closed doors" for ritual purpose.

The only one in here who should be allowed to own a gun is Adok to use for suicide-atempts.

Anyway, before the media knew it was a norvegian nationalist who did this, the words terror and muslims were everywhere. Now the media is treating it more like they would treat a tsunami or a big train-accident.

Freemasons = The New Islam?

what a ridiculous thing to say, you big bully. What has Adok done to you or anyone else to deserve to kill himself? oh and a nice topic you found to be "funny".

Not here, now that the "turban-factor" is gone for good, at least in german media they now boast the Plan-B like, "Merkel was target, too" and "This is likely to happen here as well ... BE AFFRAID", especially with a pointy finger in direction to neo-nazi groups in the vicinity of the NPD.