pouët.net

in school, we studied the powerfullness of the non legal possession of firearms.

d0DgE: real man use bow and arrows.

Have to put a stop to Christian Terrorism! I hope norway will come out stronger from this.

Anyway, in good true pouet tradition, I took this image from google to share it with you:

@button:

Problem, Reaction, Solution.

It's exactly the reaction such a horrible incident provocates.
Coming from Erfurt - where in 2002 a tragic high school shooting took place - I know this reaction of the public.
And that's what I meant with my first post. It WILL become a "political football" and the gun-ownership-legislation will only be one part of the "catalogue of measures to ensure security" wich is to come.

BUT ... how many of such incidents happened in Norway during the, say, last 30 years ?
Or rephrased: how many crimes related to the use of registered legal firearms did occur whithin the last 30 years in Norway ?
[not a rhetoric question, I really like to know]

You cannot punish all those people who safely and responsibly handle their weapons (for work/sport/defense/hunt, reasons of their own) just because one bloke went on a terrible rampage.

After the shooting in my hometown, the "wise" lawmakers tightened the gun-laws to an extend that an owner of a possession-license is considered to be a "glass-citizen".
Well, few years went by and lo, and behold, yet another school shooting occured in the south-west of Germany just a couple of years ago. DESPITE the tightened gun-legislation.
And if lawmakers will strip the citizens of their firearms, then such attrocities will happen with ILLEGALLY acquired or selfmade firearms.

the whole point of terrorism is to instill fear and derail a state from its established order and methodology. assuming that the chosen path wasn't wrong (and norway seemed to be doing fine), caving in to an act like this is the worst thing you can do.

Why the fuck would anyone need a fucking gun! Jesus Christ.

d0DgE, he owned a company where he had access to restricted fertilizers that can be used to make explosives.

For reasons of their own, as I wrote. Isn't this supposed to be the free world ? If you don't need one ... good for you, it's your descision.

@Gargaj: WORD!

@front243:

THAT is the far more interesting part in this whole incident.
Could it be, he established the company just for the fact, to get access to those materials.
And if yes, how was the money flow. I mean you can't pay 6 tons of fertilizer with your current cash-flow.
This fact and the possibility of a background-structure should be focused on, not why in the hell the guy could legaly buy firearms.

what okkie said.

What d0dge is saying is spot-on - here in Oz we had a gun amnesty a few years ago that was prompted by this: leave your unlicensed firearms at the cop-shop and they destroyed them no questions asked type of thing.
We have more shootings in Melbourne & Sydney now than ever. & I'd say all with unlicensed guns.
But d0dge you gotta remember this is like an arms race - if you've got a gun (where-ever it's from) then I need 1 too that's better than yours incase you decide to shoot me. Then we end up living in a world like button & okkie are talking about.
So, tho I know you & Gargaj are technically right I've gotta go with -

Btw - sorry for the sepo-bashing earlier (umm thanks w00t, I think) but I stand by my claim. Put it this way - I know our regular shootings over here very rarely make world news.

"Rifle and shotgun ownership permission can be given to "sober and responsible" persons 18 years or older. The applicant for the permission must document a need for the weapon. Two exceptions exist to this age qualification. Persons under the age of 18, but over 16 may apply for rifle or shotgun ownership license with the consent of parents or guardian. For handguns, the lowest ownership age is 21 with no exceptions allowed. For inherited weapons, it is up to the local police chief to make a decision based on the individual facts of the case."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway

@ringo:
A similar "amnesty" was offered for the citizens of Bavaria (Bayern) but instead of "no questions asked" the people got charged with "transporting illegal arms" (i.e. the inherited grampa's old carbine from the attic).

About the "arms race". That's the philosophical question. To solve this you have to "roll back" the invention of firearms. To grant this possession only to executive state powers is tantamount to tyranny by default.

The fucker was using an automatic assault rifle (in addition to a hand gun). Don't try to tell me that's something you use for sports.

...since fully automatics are illegal (unless it's a collector) acc. to norwegian law, how in the world did he get ahold of that weapon ?

Maybe he got the pieces one by one in a series of fucking cornflakes boxes. How the fuck should anyone know the answer to that? *rage*

nerve:
That "anyone" should be the freakin' police, don't you think ?
When the bloke attacked a camp of teenagers with an illegal assault rifle, it is one of the first duties of the police to trail the origin of that weapon, don't they ?!

dodge, in time. And if they already know, it's still a very much ongoing investigation. To be more precise: no one reading pouet can answer that right now, and so the only thing that can be contributed are speculations.

I don't think such speculations are much use right now. A lot of people have died completely senseless and horrible deaths. Debating gun laws is pretty moot at this point.

I'm not "debating" gunlaws (b/c I have my standpoint ;).
I merely posted my concern in the beginning of this thread, that this terrible incident mightl have numerous legislative consequences (including gunlaws, naturally) which will take macabre advantage of the current public outcry and the great emotional distress the whole nation must be going through right now.

"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction. Yet true happiness comes from a sense of peace and contentment, which in turn must be achieved through the cultivation of altruism, of love and compassion, and elimination of ignorance, selfishness, and greed."
Dalai Lama

dodge, yet you don't know - so it's certainly speculation. And it's certainly not helping anyone right now. Please man, this is not the time.

yes let the people cry out first, then you can bring up that topic!

@dodge

It's a hell of a lot harder to kill a lot of people with a knife or a pointed stick than it is with an automatic firearm not to mention it's also a lot easier a decision to pull a trigger than the intimate use of a blade.
Just how few incidents justify a slaughter like this.
1 is 1 too many and like most people, I'm horrified and sick of gun violence.

I was shocked to hear of this from Garg yesterday.
I do hope that these senseless and horrible deaths don't result in even a shadow of sort of lockdown that happened in the States after 9\11.
I regret this event, even more vivid for me having just been to Norway for the first time and met a number of awesome people there.