Scene.org Awards 2011
category: parties [glöplog]
I think it's the fact that Magellan actually had some graphics/models that were more "realistic" than other demos that made people (including me actually) regard it as good graphics. 99% of demos today go for the abstract stuff.
are we talking about the same demo here?? I can only see 3 models (a spaceman dude, external and internal shot of the spaceship), and some very generic textures of "space", "fog" and "galaxies". The models are textured alright, but painfully static and are reminiscent of 2002 era.
Was the - perfectly textured, animated, ambient occluded etc. etc. - muscled man from Agenda less "realistic" ??
Good graphics are good regardless of them being abstract or not - same with everything in art I suppose. And "graphics" in the context of scene awards is probably the only other category that is technical enough to be judged on more objective grounds - unlike music or best demo.
Was the - perfectly textured, animated, ambient occluded etc. etc. - muscled man from Agenda less "realistic" ??
Good graphics are good regardless of them being abstract or not - same with everything in art I suppose. And "graphics" in the context of scene awards is probably the only other category that is technical enough to be judged on more objective grounds - unlike music or best demo.
IMO the best graphics have 0 polygons and shaders.
@Smash: Thank you. It seems we have nailed pretty much what we want to do with TG then. I'm happy you came, so that the kids got to meet a bona fide demoscene superstar.
I hope we can have that every year, because both having an awesome demo from a big name and having celebrities at the party is inspirational for the kids that mostly have to watch people who haven't even been to TG slagging off the party on the interwebs.
Oh and about the production:
The rest of the production team (meaning non-sceners) have been excited about the awards show since it was announced. This was the main event for most (if not all) of the people involved with sound, stage, lighting and broadcast.
A special thank you to Frank for doing the debrief session, that meant a great deal to a lot of people who have worked hard for months to make the show as good as possible :)
I hope we can have that every year, because both having an awesome demo from a big name and having celebrities at the party is inspirational for the kids that mostly have to watch people who haven't even been to TG slagging off the party on the interwebs.
Oh and about the production:
The rest of the production team (meaning non-sceners) have been excited about the awards show since it was announced. This was the main event for most (if not all) of the people involved with sound, stage, lighting and broadcast.
A special thank you to Frank for doing the debrief session, that meant a great deal to a lot of people who have worked hard for months to make the show as good as possible :)
Quote:
after the awards, some 16 year old kids came up to me and started to ask questions about how to get started in coding demos etc. this is something i never understood about the gathering before: its importance as a breeding ground for future demosceners.
this quote by smash is highly interesting because we are trying to do the same thing at Razor 1911 since we got a lot of those "16 year old kids" as followers, and some already asked to us how we are doing this kind of "video" instead of asking for cr*ck :)
since the awards are meant to travel (or at least were supposed to as they were stuck for years), where do they travel next? i'd opt for assembly or main
Back to topic:
I think Magellan won the award for the Mandelbulb planet scene (interaction with spaceship, realtime lighting, everything running at a good framerate). It's one of the most impressive scenes I've seen. Additionally it was an overall polished production.
But I can understand Navis' problem with the decision...ALL nominated demos were highly polished productions with good models, lighting etc. But this is also true for the graphics awards in previous years...all contestants had a similar level of quality.
The last "obvious winner" would be Plastic's "Your fingers so gently..." from 2004 with MUCH better modelling, lighting, scenery than the rest of the nominees in that year. It was a boring demo, though. :-)
I think Magellan won the award for the Mandelbulb planet scene (interaction with spaceship, realtime lighting, everything running at a good framerate). It's one of the most impressive scenes I've seen. Additionally it was an overall polished production.
But I can understand Navis' problem with the decision...ALL nominated demos were highly polished productions with good models, lighting etc. But this is also true for the graphics awards in previous years...all contestants had a similar level of quality.
The last "obvious winner" would be Plastic's "Your fingers so gently..." from 2004 with MUCH better modelling, lighting, scenery than the rest of the nominees in that year. It was a boring demo, though. :-)
The Mandelbulb planet scene is a procedural/programming feat. The graphics category should have nothing to do with how "fast" things run or how they interact with geometry and other such technical details. It is the only award that goes towards the *graphicians* that do 2D, 3D and animation *models*.
It's very easy to tell which one is which - graphicians do this, coders do that. The mandelbulb is not related, if it is then it's wrong.
It's very easy to tell which one is which - graphicians do this, coders do that. The mandelbulb is not related, if it is then it's wrong.
I m with navis about this . Magellan has good graphics but mothing mindblasting.
It looks good overall. It's not the best, but everything glues together as part of an whole. Although the same can be said for some other demos.
yeah, unlike last year, some results were 'hmmm' compared to my jury input.. guess others see it different. i share the magellan and hunz sympathies, also in how i voted.
I second xernobyl.
In my opinion it's not just the 2D, 3D and animation work created by the designer/graphics artist that counts for this category.
It's how the whole thing is going hand in hand and shows a coherent design through the whole demo and the guys from Farbrausch succeeded in creating this with "Magellan". No matter if the shown graphics are actually painted, modeled or calculated/generated.
In my opinion it's not just the 2D, 3D and animation work created by the designer/graphics artist that counts for this category.
It's how the whole thing is going hand in hand and shows a coherent design through the whole demo and the guys from Farbrausch succeeded in creating this with "Magellan". No matter if the shown graphics are actually painted, modeled or calculated/generated.
yeah, overall "look" of the demo
No, that belongs to the 'best direction' (or even 'best demo') category.
Problem with the awards/nominations is that a few good demo are nominated for too much.
Best graphics should be for the work of the graphics artist, not how it blends together with the rest. Just like best technical archievement is not the same as best effects.
(someone should make a chart of the categories (and later add jury voting point penalities based on that, so we're not getting 5 instances of best demo).
Problem with the awards/nominations is that a few good demo are nominated for too much.
Best graphics should be for the work of the graphics artist, not how it blends together with the rest. Just like best technical archievement is not the same as best effects.
(someone should make a chart of the categories (and later add jury voting point penalities based on that, so we're not getting 5 instances of best demo).
As it has been mentioned before, best graphics should solely be for the work of a graphician. Textures, 3D stuff and animation.
This means that there is an overlap with the "best direction" category (combination of colours, decision for design elements, placement of models and effects, timing, cameras) but a seasoned scener should be able to work out the difference: direction is the management, graphics is the legwork.
In my view, two things could have happened here:
* we (I) have made a mistake and the category IS, after all, about mandelbulbs and programmer/technical stuff. In this case I still disagree that Mangellan should even be nominated (let alone win it), but that moves it into rather subjective territory.
* the awards jury (or the majority) got the category wrong.
I simply cannot comprehend that the jury and the rest of the world knows/agrees that the category is about technical achievement of *graphicians* and still go for Magellan with that sort of competition from other productions: 2004 era generic 3D, seen in a few hundred demos before vs "this is what the rest of you can do if you are really, really good in about 2013" stuff from Fairlight. Oh yeah, and no nomination for Ceasefire.
In any case, you'd think that after 9 years of awards it should be more clear what each category is all about but no.
This means that there is an overlap with the "best direction" category (combination of colours, decision for design elements, placement of models and effects, timing, cameras) but a seasoned scener should be able to work out the difference: direction is the management, graphics is the legwork.
In my view, two things could have happened here:
* we (I) have made a mistake and the category IS, after all, about mandelbulbs and programmer/technical stuff. In this case I still disagree that Mangellan should even be nominated (let alone win it), but that moves it into rather subjective territory.
* the awards jury (or the majority) got the category wrong.
I simply cannot comprehend that the jury and the rest of the world knows/agrees that the category is about technical achievement of *graphicians* and still go for Magellan with that sort of competition from other productions: 2004 era generic 3D, seen in a few hundred demos before vs "this is what the rest of you can do if you are really, really good in about 2013" stuff from Fairlight. Oh yeah, and no nomination for Ceasefire.
In any case, you'd think that after 9 years of awards it should be more clear what each category is all about but no.
I still don't believe people <whatever they are doing>
Navis: so basically your problem is that it's not called "Best Art Direction"?
well, can you make up your mind whoever is responsible for the awards:
Is "best graphics" a technical award for graphicians or for "best art direction" (in which case, what is "direction" for?).
In either case, IMHO, Magellan is best nothing by a long mile. sorry.
Is "best graphics" a technical award for graphicians or for "best art direction" (in which case, what is "direction" for?).
In either case, IMHO, Magellan is best nothing by a long mile. sorry.
i agree with navis and psycho. to put it harshly, it seems as if a set of "best demos" are picked and randomly awarded as the winner of the categories.
perhaps a "rule of intention" should be written for each category to fix these misunderstandings?
there's a huge difference between best art direction and best art.
perhaps a "rule of intention" should be written for each category to fix these misunderstandings?
there's a huge difference between best art direction and best art.
oh, and also jury notes would be priceless
it's also quite interesting that out of the 15 members of the jury only about 3-4 people actually left a comment on said production's pouet page, and these comments are rather lukewarm (contrary to the reception of the other 5 nominated productions, especially agent and youshould). Strange...
Imho it would be interesting to see how many votes a nominee got..
For example.. did some1 win with 1 vote difference or with a huge gap between number 1 and 2 ?
Navis: where can the (nick)names of the members of the jury be read? Any link ?
For example.. did some1 win with 1 vote difference or with a huge gap between number 1 and 2 ?
Navis: where can the (nick)names of the members of the jury be read? Any link ?
No it's not interesting and I don't care to know about this. It is their awards and they can give them all to whoever they want.
But we do need to know about the rules: are the graphics still a technical award for a very specific thing or is it just "art direction". And a bit of insight into the decision (which I obviously find a unjustified) would be welcomed to.
But we do need to know about the rules: are the graphics still a technical award for a very specific thing or is it just "art direction". And a bit of insight into the decision (which I obviously find a unjustified) would be welcomed to.
Navis: your second alinea I also agree upon.What about that link? Where did you read the names of the 15 members of the jury?
maybe he read it in hugi!
