Scene.org Awards 2011
category: parties [glöplog]
thats not trolling but my opinion as a "consumer".
of course i can understand that people who are actually nominated for an award like to be at the pricegiving but how many are there? is it worth the drama?
of course i can understand that people who are actually nominated for an award like to be at the pricegiving but how many are there? is it worth the drama?
Again! Effort! This is all way too transparent, nobody will fall for it!
Pro: You should read it this way:
There was no Breakpoint. Because of this, TG contacted the Awards staff and made a proposal to move the event to TG. The rumoured party, who one might argue should have seen the possibility coming, did not contact the Awards staff directly about anything, especially not wanting to have the Awards (or even give an indication).
That a lot of the core staff knew about it already is a whole other matter, it still doesn't show any interest from the other party, which was what I meant with my sentence.
Also, Scamp, I believe the leaked document had a date. You might want to look into your statement of "a few weeks". You might also want to read it again to find other nifty details.
There was no Breakpoint. Because of this, TG contacted the Awards staff and made a proposal to move the event to TG. The rumoured party, who one might argue should have seen the possibility coming, did not contact the Awards staff directly about anything, especially not wanting to have the Awards (or even give an indication).
That a lot of the core staff knew about it already is a whole other matter, it still doesn't show any interest from the other party, which was what I meant with my sentence.
Also, Scamp, I believe the leaked document had a date. You might want to look into your statement of "a few weeks". You might also want to read it again to find other nifty details.
flamebait apart, i would have liked TG to make the proposal to the Award Staff as an open letter to the community, not as a private endorsement agreement...
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Why on earth would they have done that? It makes absolutely no sense on any level.flamebait apart, i would have liked TG to make the proposal to the Award Staff as an open letter to the community, not as a private endorsement agreement...
then again, apparently there is no need for such "open letters" as the contents reach the public sooner or later anyway :P
viking quest!
I actually think this is a good move.
And when it comes to alcohol at the party, that won't happen. Even if the organizers wanted it, I'm 100% sure the local politicians and supporters/sponsors would strongly object. No point in discussing even the possibility that it might change.
But why the hell is that even an issue? If a shadow party works for Assembly, why wouldn't it work for TG? There's always been boozing outside, so it's just a matter of organizing it a bit more formally. Maybe get a permit to put up a beer tent or two with some heaters or something. There's a ton of options that doesn't involve drinking inside the hall, and which could be satisfying for everyone.
And when it comes to alcohol at the party, that won't happen. Even if the organizers wanted it, I'm 100% sure the local politicians and supporters/sponsors would strongly object. No point in discussing even the possibility that it might change.
But why the hell is that even an issue? If a shadow party works for Assembly, why wouldn't it work for TG? There's always been boozing outside, so it's just a matter of organizing it a bit more formally. Maybe get a permit to put up a beer tent or two with some heaters or something. There's a ton of options that doesn't involve drinking inside the hall, and which could be satisfying for everyone.
leijaa: IMHO it would be scene.org's job to seek potential parties the awards may be moved to.
And yes, I'm aware there are other details to the deal besides the 50.000 NOK.
But if you create a list of pros and cons comparing for example Outline and TG, let's say taking into account "climate, alcohol rules, percentage of sceners at the party, travel distance for sceners, party background, financial stuff" I think 50.000 NOK would be about the only thing where TG would have an entry on the Pro-Side, no?
You still may call it "result of careful consideration", but I'll keep calling it "result of careful consideration of scene.org's wallet" :)
Also, Maali has leading.
And yes, I'm aware there are other details to the deal besides the 50.000 NOK.
But if you create a list of pros and cons comparing for example Outline and TG, let's say taking into account "climate, alcohol rules, percentage of sceners at the party, travel distance for sceners, party background, financial stuff" I think 50.000 NOK would be about the only thing where TG would have an entry on the Pro-Side, no?
You still may call it "result of careful consideration", but I'll keep calling it "result of careful consideration of scene.org's wallet" :)
Also, Maali has leading.
scamp: with that attitude, you can't really wonder when we go for the option that actually presents itself and thus shows interest in the project..
scamp: I think it's a shame that the things people are telling you aren't registrering. There is no financial gain for Scene.org - none. No extra money, no "general" sponsorship that we can do with what we please. You may continue to spread your "they're only thinking about money"-bile of course, but you ought to know it simply isn't true. Even if it will never register with you, I do hope it has with everyone else.
I also feel that you should perhaps examine your comments about "Scene.org should have known a BP-replacement was under development" together with you "everyone asked me if I had seen the proposal TG sent Scene.org". Doesn't it stand to reason that if a BP-replacement party knew about the offer, they were in the exact same position to maybe contact Scene.org and say "Hey, we heard about this, and we think you should come to XYZ instead"? But no.
As the statement clearly states: there was careful consideration. Back and forth, among more than one option and ways to do it. At some point there _was no_ Scene.org Awards 2011 at all.
It's this automatic condemnation from you and others that I cannot stand - "ANYTHING would be better than TG!" - "Scene.org should have checked EVERY POSSIBLE OTHER OPTION before doing it at TG!" - "Canceling or loosing money would have been better than TG!". All of that - utter rubbish.
I also feel that you should perhaps examine your comments about "Scene.org should have known a BP-replacement was under development" together with you "everyone asked me if I had seen the proposal TG sent Scene.org". Doesn't it stand to reason that if a BP-replacement party knew about the offer, they were in the exact same position to maybe contact Scene.org and say "Hey, we heard about this, and we think you should come to XYZ instead"? But no.
As the statement clearly states: there was careful consideration. Back and forth, among more than one option and ways to do it. At some point there _was no_ Scene.org Awards 2011 at all.
It's this automatic condemnation from you and others that I cannot stand - "ANYTHING would be better than TG!" - "Scene.org should have checked EVERY POSSIBLE OTHER OPTION before doing it at TG!" - "Canceling or loosing money would have been better than TG!". All of that - utter rubbish.
Quote:
I also feel that you should perhaps examine your comments about "Scene.org should have known a BP-replacement was under development" together with you "everyone asked me if I had seen the proposal TG sent Scene.org". Doesn't it stand to reason that if a BP-replacement party knew about the offer, they were in the exact same position to maybe contact Scene.org and say "Hey, we heard about this, and we think you should come to XYZ instead"? But no.
my thoughts exactly.
Just for the record...
Outline is not willing/able/interested. Our location is cramped enough as is, it would take far too much organising time which we'd rather spend jerking off to ASCII pr0n, we don't want to run into pointless discussions with other party orgos, and since Atari prods never win in those Nordic Conspiracy Awards shows despite our bribing attempts, what's the point anyway? :)
Having said that, I would also prefer to see the Awards show at a pure demoscene party. AFAIK, TG has supported the Awards organisation for quite a few years now, so it makes sense to give them the first chance to provide an alternative to the former location-by-default, instead of that elusive "Breakpoint alternative", which may or may not materialize and become a more or less popular destination for sceners' Easter holidays.
Also, IMHO the Scene.org people did a great job by landing that 50K NOK sponsorship deal. It's pretty poor sportsmanship to equate their commercial acumen with "selling out", especially if the one making such claims has sold out part of their core party business to a huge corporate sponsor in very recent history, and is withholding the results of this sellout to this day. :p
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any party that potentiallly could have hosted the awards instead of BP now (there are heaps - how about Outline?)
Outline is not willing/able/interested. Our location is cramped enough as is, it would take far too much organising time which we'd rather spend jerking off to ASCII pr0n, we don't want to run into pointless discussions with other party orgos, and since Atari prods never win in those Nordic Conspiracy Awards shows despite our bribing attempts, what's the point anyway? :)
Having said that, I would also prefer to see the Awards show at a pure demoscene party. AFAIK, TG has supported the Awards organisation for quite a few years now, so it makes sense to give them the first chance to provide an alternative to the former location-by-default, instead of that elusive "Breakpoint alternative", which may or may not materialize and become a more or less popular destination for sceners' Easter holidays.
Also, IMHO the Scene.org people did a great job by landing that 50K NOK sponsorship deal. It's pretty poor sportsmanship to equate their commercial acumen with "selling out", especially if the one making such claims has sold out part of their core party business to a huge corporate sponsor in very recent history, and is withholding the results of this sellout to this day. :p
+but
scamp, i do wholeheartedly share your disappointment on a personal level (realizing that i will most likely never again will see a live ceremony of the scene.org awards, since i see no point in - and have no possibilities to - a trip to TG just for that), but considering the ongoing argument, i think there is always a good moment to stop, and i am wondering if this moment is not surpassed already.
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Why on earth would they have done that? It makes absolutely no sense on any level.
dont get me wrong, my question was more "why not?" or more expressly, "why not let the community know the ongoing plans for the next awards location?"
and now for an utterly, totally, massively random picture:
I think the TG organizers (and the demo-team in particular) would take quite a bit of offense at your comment above. Even though you might not see it, TG might, just _might_ have other positive things associated with it apart from having a healthy economy. You're pretty much just offending everyone, for no good reason.
Also, if you're going to throw numbers around, how about sticking to something even remotely close to reality? 6.000 EUR (50.000 NOK) is the (proposed, not approved) overall budget. You keep tossing this number around, but it doesn't mean what you want people to think it means, seeing as the awards has a lower-limit budget of 2.000 EUR already, so you ought to say 4.000 EUR. But then again, that's not right either, seeing as that is just what TG wants to spend on the show (extra stage setup, even better statues/diplomas, travel-aid to essential assets etc). Scene.org will never see this money, only the positive effects of them, being spent by TG - not Scene.org
Again: just stop saying "TG bought the awards for 6.000 EUR!" - you just look stupid doing it.
Also, if you're going to throw numbers around, how about sticking to something even remotely close to reality? 6.000 EUR (50.000 NOK) is the (proposed, not approved) overall budget. You keep tossing this number around, but it doesn't mean what you want people to think it means, seeing as the awards has a lower-limit budget of 2.000 EUR already, so you ought to say 4.000 EUR. But then again, that's not right either, seeing as that is just what TG wants to spend on the show (extra stage setup, even better statues/diplomas, travel-aid to essential assets etc). Scene.org will never see this money, only the positive effects of them, being spent by TG - not Scene.org
Again: just stop saying "TG bought the awards for 6.000 EUR!" - you just look stupid doing it.
A side note (because this really is a side note)
Although I regret the friction going on, I appreciate this conversation happening somewhere I can see it.
I admit I'm not the best about reading forums and going on IRC because I have too many projects in the air
at once, demoscene and otherwise.
Now I'm going to sound like a peacenik. ( :
Trying to help, and to offer help.
As a person who's spent a certain amount of time involved with science fiction fandom convention organizing
I've seen a number of discussions like this over the years. And it is always difficult for people to
figure out other folks' motives, when what all of the people concerned really want, as far as I can tell,
is to act in the best interests of the scene they're promoting, whether it be
science fiction or the demoscene.
I understand the energy it takes to put on an event, having put on @party (with a very limited budget
shading into the red) and somehow survived (I still need to get the info out there, but I'm still sorting it out).
It took input from a lot of people to make it happen -- physical, financial, emotional -- and I am thankful to them
and to all our supporters, even if all they did was mention it to somebody on IRC.
In any case, the kind of investment organisers make, and the depth of their caring for the scene
they are working on that encourages them to make that investment, can make folks very sensitive, I know, me included.
And then maybe that makes it harder to accomplish what we're all trying to do.
Wherever the scene.org awards are, as someone who values the productive side of the demoscene, likes
networking with demosceners anywhere I can find them, and
values all of your accomplishments, but who can't go anyway anytime soon (with limited vacation, and
the limited funds of a secretary's salary with a spouse in graduate school) if it will help any
I would like to offer some amount of my admittedly already limited metaphorical runtime
to help if I can be of any use, even if all
that is involved is running a slide at my party. So let me know.
The reason I'm not just saying this in an email to scene.org folks or Gathering folks is because I want to
say in front of anyone in the scene who is reading this thread that I'm in favor of cooperation between
sceners in North America and sceners everywhere else, and I'm willing to make a more than strictly symbolic
gesture in support of that conviction.
I don't know how the scene.org folks and the organizers of The Gathering decided to host the awards there,
but I am willing to take it on faith that they mean well, and that Scamp means well in his criticism.
And I am paying attention, as much as I can.
best to you all.
Although I regret the friction going on, I appreciate this conversation happening somewhere I can see it.
I admit I'm not the best about reading forums and going on IRC because I have too many projects in the air
at once, demoscene and otherwise.
Now I'm going to sound like a peacenik. ( :
Trying to help, and to offer help.
As a person who's spent a certain amount of time involved with science fiction fandom convention organizing
I've seen a number of discussions like this over the years. And it is always difficult for people to
figure out other folks' motives, when what all of the people concerned really want, as far as I can tell,
is to act in the best interests of the scene they're promoting, whether it be
science fiction or the demoscene.
I understand the energy it takes to put on an event, having put on @party (with a very limited budget
shading into the red) and somehow survived (I still need to get the info out there, but I'm still sorting it out).
It took input from a lot of people to make it happen -- physical, financial, emotional -- and I am thankful to them
and to all our supporters, even if all they did was mention it to somebody on IRC.
In any case, the kind of investment organisers make, and the depth of their caring for the scene
they are working on that encourages them to make that investment, can make folks very sensitive, I know, me included.
And then maybe that makes it harder to accomplish what we're all trying to do.
Wherever the scene.org awards are, as someone who values the productive side of the demoscene, likes
networking with demosceners anywhere I can find them, and
values all of your accomplishments, but who can't go anyway anytime soon (with limited vacation, and
the limited funds of a secretary's salary with a spouse in graduate school) if it will help any
I would like to offer some amount of my admittedly already limited metaphorical runtime
to help if I can be of any use, even if all
that is involved is running a slide at my party. So let me know.
The reason I'm not just saying this in an email to scene.org folks or Gathering folks is because I want to
say in front of anyone in the scene who is reading this thread that I'm in favor of cooperation between
sceners in North America and sceners everywhere else, and I'm willing to make a more than strictly symbolic
gesture in support of that conviction.
I don't know how the scene.org folks and the organizers of The Gathering decided to host the awards there,
but I am willing to take it on faith that they mean well, and that Scamp means well in his criticism.
And I am paying attention, as much as I can.
best to you all.
I sense some kitten pic comin up
Blockparty offers to help by hosting the Scene Awards in the USA West Coast!
Oh dear.
speaking of which, any dates for blockparty yet? even if it's not organised right next to my employer's WHQ any longer, i'm still interested in making the trip.. :)