pouët.net

As I guess many have heard, there is a new "modchip" (really some kind of USB-dongle) that allegedly turns a retail PS3 into a debug unit.

If this turns out to be true, and by most reports it seems like it, I am guessing this would open up the PS3 for homebrew (demos!) which actually utilize the video hardware etc. unlike the old OtherOS (which is removed by now).

From what I understand though, it will require access to leaked (ie. illegal) Sony SDKs to produce the code.

Anyone in the know have info if this SDK is out in the wild, and if it is, will the scene accept releases made with it, or have we moved so far toward the "keep it legal" area that people will start whining about it?

I recall that the original Xbox had quite a lot of stuff produced with leaked MS SDK before the free alternatives were available.

I don't think people usually care about what SDK you use to make your demos. That's a matter between you and your SDK supplier IMO.

I always read what a dev nightmare PS3 is. Besides no one knows how long will that dongle thingy will work for and it still costs a small fortune.

Considering that the jailbreak-hardware seems to be a simple PIC, I assume there will be cheap clones available soon.

But seriously...Using SPU's for vertex operations because your Vertex shader is actually slower....wtf.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

has been for a while, yes :)

This is just my opinion, the opinion of one who did a ps2 demo and some pce vj device. My opinion is that we shouldn't be excited to code for such devices.

My main reason is that anything you'll be producing for the device will only be experienced by a minority of the user base, maybe 0.00001% of users. And amongst this minority, the minority that is interested in the demoscene? And mostly coders like you, rather than musicians, illustrators etc..

Another reason is that by the time you'll have a decent dev environment, the device will be practically obsolete compared to a PC. And contrary to a PC, where people will be with time able to catch up with you, the platform you so chose will be more and more abandoned and rare. In addition to that, the manufacturer is likely to produce revisions incompatible with whatever hack you've been using.

So in the end, lots of individual efforts, and enjoyment for coders only.

I guess the only benefit I can find is that it could help you build a portfolio as coder for embedded platforms / consoles. However not knowing the industry's hiring practices I have no clue if it's valuable (and I chose to despise people who participate in the demoscene for the sole purpose of building a portfolio)

Why compare a ps3 to a PC ? PS3 has fixed hardware specifications, which makes it very suitable for democoding. Though, I don't know how "compatible" homebrew code would remain with firmware and dongle upgrades.

PC's never stop evolving. So CPU power is not as an important issue as on machines with fixed hardware. With fixed hardware machines, like oldschool computers and consoles, CPU, memory, and graphics become a hardware limitation again. This makes the demo coding process completely different. I can understand if some people like that.

Coding for a fixed platform is only interesting if the scene for it picks up i.e. if there's a lot of competition. That is why many years afterwards the c64 remains an active an interesting platform.

There are only so many platforms that can welcome a good amount of competitors. And without them there's not a big incentive to make much off the hardware.

And this is another point for which complex or costy cracking procedures would kill a platform.

P.S.

Of course I say "interesting" here to mean interesting as a scene. I'm not saying they're not fun or interesting to code for. (They certainly are!)

Just don't hold much hope to build any semblance of scene on them.

I don't think it'll be worth getting it tbh, for anyone!

http://streetskaterfu.blogspot.com/2010/08/psjailbreak-sad-truth.html

if you are scared of "illegal", then console hacking is not for you anyway =P

^____^

I think there is a certain charm to fixed platforms that you don't get with todays PC scene.
When I code for the C64 or some other 8-bitter, I can optimize and come up with tricks, and perhaps finally get that effect running at that smooooooth 50Hz with only a few cycles to spare.
(side rant: I really hate that it is almost impossible to get stuff, even older, to run at a perfect 60Hz (with ZERO framedrops) with vsync on on the PC. )

Coding on PC nowadays, it seems to be mostly about coding what you want, and you have something that runs with framedrops out the wazoo, meh, faster computers will come along. And doing specific optimizations isn't worth it, because you never know how it will perform on the next card/driver that comes along.

Having a fixed high (ok, maybe mid by todays standard) end platform like the PS3 would be nice to see what could be squeezed out of it if people really tried.

Of course I don't think that will happen, but it's a nice thought-experiment.

It also has a whole shitload of issues making it not suitable for democoding. Ranking the "fixed hardware specs"-reasoning above the others makes little sense.

it really depends from which camp you are from imho. if to you democoding is mostly about making pretty things, using decent tools, staying legal all the way.... then console stuff is not for you.

if you on the other hand like puzzling and reverseengineering, and doing everything yourself down to writing your own interrupt handlers and whatnot and dont care too much if the visible outcome is only some boring rotating cubes - go for it :)

but obviously the last group is quite small. the question is, who cares? i certainly dont :)

I think you'll find that all of those three elements rarely go together in any kind of demo-making process. :)

ya...some people fail to see the difference between spinning cubes rendered on the latest x86 hardware, compared to something actually awesome, like spinning cubes on a cell b/e you've just freed from the grasp of an evil corporation :D

also there is nothing like working your ass off for 2 years, then release the first demo ever on such a platform, and get the result trashed by comments on pouet from people who couldnt play a mod without api =)

I would give that machine a try if they'd give me all the basic compiling/assembling tools and a detailed description for the hardware.

Without the dependency on the money ofcourse. :P

That's great news :)
I'm sure there's lots of potential for hacks and weird tricks on the PS3, it will be nice to see some of them in action :)

So, does it still work?

There was a demo/3D engine released on ps2dev.org forums for the PS3 that basically is a "software" 3D engine that mostly runs on the SPE's of the cell b/e.
Unfortunately ps2dev.org seems to be down at the moment, otherwise I would provide a link to it.

Ah.. nevermind, found the link to the source code on github: Freezer GitHub

Official homepage: Freezer Homepage

It runs under OtherOs... so you need firmware <= 3.15 on your PS3 and some linux installed on it.

There was a youtube video of a demo using it that I can't find...

It's not that hard to come by the nVidia 7000-series GPU commands (or just to steal libgcm for who can). Then you can go wild on the GPU at least.