TRSI ex-coder Spider/T-Bone is back with a vengeance with his newest release, GfxEditor.com, a brilliant web-app for creating graphic design.
category: residue [glöplog]
Sorry for the typos...
is there a reason why ppl tag themselves with an "ex"-group?
kind regards
docd^ex-lottagroups
greetings to:
dalezy^muchmoregroupshescurrentlyinthanothereverbeen
teis^muchmoregroupshescurrentlyinthanothereverbeen&Ex-too-muchothergroups
kind regards
docd^ex-lottagroups
greetings to:
dalezy^muchmoregroupshescurrentlyinthanothereverbeen
teis^muchmoregroupshescurrentlyinthanothereverbeen&Ex-too-muchothergroups
Said: "is there a reason why ppl tag themselves with an "ex"-group?"
Yes there is... it's because we are proud of the groups we been part of, has parties with, and have spent hours and hours of our precious youth coding thousands of assembler lines for :)
I will make a "Create a t-shirt in 1 minute" video, afterwards, I' make a "Coders Rock!" shirt... I can't wait you see what you guys will say about my tool is "Being hard to use" :)
The part of my tool that have a steep learning curve, is the part in the deeper stuff, ou know the parts where you have to press a few tab panes to get there, but I like that design, its easy to see advantage wheen you get use to it. I hate all the dialog boxes that phoshop display... The stuff on the surface is easy. And on the video I'll show the stuff on the surface... Give me 1 hours to post it on You Tube.
Yes there is... it's because we are proud of the groups we been part of, has parties with, and have spent hours and hours of our precious youth coding thousands of assembler lines for :)
I will make a "Create a t-shirt in 1 minute" video, afterwards, I' make a "Coders Rock!" shirt... I can't wait you see what you guys will say about my tool is "Being hard to use" :)
The part of my tool that have a steep learning curve, is the part in the deeper stuff, ou know the parts where you have to press a few tab panes to get there, but I like that design, its easy to see advantage wheen you get use to it. I hate all the dialog boxes that phoshop display... The stuff on the surface is easy. And on the video I'll show the stuff on the surface... Give me 1 hours to post it on You Tube.
This must be the most kickass pouet trolling ever. 5 years of trolling preperation and what a payoff :)
Anyway Spider, when it comes to the GUI you must think about what usergroup you want to reach. You won`t reach anyone on pouet.net, except for Solo, and pouet users are very handy with their computers people.
You probably want to reach users that just have learn to tie their shoelace, and to tie your shoes they need to read a manual of 500 pages, watch 50 videos and then do 30-40 attempts to succeed. In todays society people is not that patient u know.
Anyway Spider, when it comes to the GUI you must think about what usergroup you want to reach. You won`t reach anyone on pouet.net, except for Solo, and pouet users are very handy with their computers people.
You probably want to reach users that just have learn to tie their shoelace, and to tie your shoes they need to read a manual of 500 pages, watch 50 videos and then do 30-40 attempts to succeed. In todays society people is not that patient u know.
gloom: ...but he explicitly state that the editor ISN'T done. Sure, retro-fitting a market-plan is a lot more tricky than to start with one, but it's not as if the only thing that is possible to do now is sales.
Looks pretty impressive from the videos, but it seems to come from the linux approach: add too many features, then worry about people actually using it later.
If I want to make a tshirt, I want to either spend 30 seconds total throwing some text and an image on there, or I'll make something nice in a desktop tool i'm already familiar with like photoshop. This is WAY too big for the first case.
Still congratulations on the hugely successful pouet trolling. It's not going to earn you any money or get you laid, but hey :)
If I want to make a tshirt, I want to either spend 30 seconds total throwing some text and an image on there, or I'll make something nice in a desktop tool i'm already familiar with like photoshop. This is WAY too big for the first case.
Still congratulations on the hugely successful pouet trolling. It's not going to earn you any money or get you laid, but hey :)
Haha, your approach towards marketing and software design are hilarious :D
It's not longer the 80s son, shit's changed.
But good luck with this project you put five years of your life in, I hope it is successful for you. (But I'm afraid it will horribly fail)
It's not longer the 80s son, shit's changed.
But good luck with this project you put five years of your life in, I hope it is successful for you. (But I'm afraid it will horribly fail)
Also disputing everyone's advice with comments how wrong they are is not 'beta testing'
hihi, "it's brilliant, so people will buy it" is exactly the biggest pithole many E-* companies fall into :) good to see that proven once again by mister Spider here! *carries on reading academic crap about similar issues*
how come all the artwork in the gallery isnt made with GFXeditor ?
http://www.gfxeditor.com/gallery/2
http://www.zazzle.com/prehistoric_dream_poster-228447570611349085
for example.
says made in 2005.
wats the point of showeing artwork from ppl who dont work with gfxeditor ?
http://www.gfxeditor.com/gallery/2
http://www.zazzle.com/prehistoric_dream_poster-228447570611349085
for example.
says made in 2005.
wats the point of showeing artwork from ppl who dont work with gfxeditor ?
Well i for one wish you the best of luck Spider, and like with new prods from groups/individuals he could have used a more supportive motivational thumb up :) Constructive criticism would have been better instead of "it's shit" that a few people basically said.
Quote:
And on the video I'll show the stuff on the surface... Give me 1 hours to post it on You Tube.
If you *need* to make a video to demonstrate how easy it is to use, then You're Doing It Wrong. You've decided that your target market is people who don't have the attention span to save an image then go to a separate t-shirt printing website to upload it. That's fine, but you need to follow that principle through to EVERY other possible drop-out point.
You say you're going to address this stuff, but the fact that you're still talking about videos and improving documentation suggests that you don't get it. This is the internet, where everyone has ADHD. People don't read documentation, or watch tutorial videos, or fill in registration forms on the offchance that it might give them access to a cool toy. And IMHO that last one is the absolute first thing you need to fix.
Quote:
You say that like he hasn't been offered constructive critisism already. He has, he just ignores it.Constructive criticism would have been better instead of "it's shit" that a few people basically said.
Quote:
Looks pretty impressive from the videos, but it seems to come from the linux approach: add too many features, then worry about people actually using it later.
Indeed. Far too many projects use a feature-oriented approach: stuff as many features in as possible, and expose them to the user with the GUI. Result: sucky interfaces.
The alternative is the task-oriented approach, where the tasks the target audience wants and/or needs to do are the basic elements for the overall design. The user interface gets designed for these tasks, the code behind it gets written for these tasks.
Good example: printer dialog giving you a list of printing subsystems, you have to choose one and specify subsystem specific parameters = feature oriented. Printer dialog where I primarily worry about paper size, landscape/portrait, margins etc. = task oriented.
spider,
i wouldn't consider anybody being a betatester by looking at your website. if you already put me on that list, please take me off it. i don't want in any way be related with that product of yours or your name anywhere outside this thread.
actually, i'm ashamed. very. doesn't happen to often.
i wouldn't consider anybody being a betatester by looking at your website. if you already put me on that list, please take me off it. i don't want in any way be related with that product of yours or your name anywhere outside this thread.
actually, i'm ashamed. very. doesn't happen to often.
Well, there is something your software is clearly achieving: to be the most complex to date Flash based image editor, and probably also the most complex web based image editor.
Some people here is arguing that a rich feature web based image editor is not useful, but I don't believe that. In fact, it is clear for me that web applications are going to be more and more complex in the next years until coupling the feature-richness of desktop based ones.
In the case of image edition/illustration/design, it might look now a bit useless to have a full featured web editor when you can do it from your desktop computer, but just to point out an example of when it would be useful: you are a designer showing your sketch to your client in the client's office. Then, the client wants to see any simple change in the design, and you could easily do it from the client's PC. No need to carry your own computer at all. Other examples are currently being done with web apps like several people working on the same document. Well, in the end, there are reasons to use complex web apps, and I believe we will all end using mostly cloud based apps instead of desktop apps.
So, the main concept of your app is good (a cloud based image editor) and having it fully featured is also good for me.
But, there are a lot of things wrong in your beta or not as good as I would expect:
- As pointed out a lot of times in this thread, it really needs a lot of work in GUI and usability redesign. I believe the part of your app as coder is good and it could probably be sucessful with a good GUI. But it needs it. Why? If it is an app for designer, then designers should appeal it. And visual/graphic designer/artists - like I am - only appeal good, easy to use and beautiful designed applications. In interface design, "beatiful designed" doesn't have to mean "beautiful" as in visual arts, but something that looks natural to use. One great example might be Google SketchUp. You can use SketchUp from the very first minute, and designing 3d objects require near 0 learning.
- Related to the latest point, you should learn to listen to criticism. I perfectly understand that it is never fun to listen to bad critics of whatevery you do, but, first, no matter what you do, there will be *always* critics on internet. So, try to just forget the non-constructive ones... no need to reply and/or to worry at all. And second, when somebody points out something that dislikes, you should not try to convince him/her that the way you do it is better, but just to take note about it, and if there is a good amount of people thinking the same, then to change it. You know, you can choose to do software for yourself or for other people. In this case your choice was to do it for other people (internet users), so you should be open to how they want to use it. Not an easy task, but probably the only way for success.
- Again, about usage, I might expect coherence always. In one of your videos, I've seen that if you add a border to an image, the border doesn't show until you resize down the image in the container object. By other hand, if you apply a shadow, the image resize down so the shadow can be seen. My personal choice here would be that both things would resize up the container object, but even not thinking in that, there is a clear usage incoherence here. Why both things, border and shadow doesn't do the same thing? Why one resize down and the other not?
- About shortcuts. These looks difficult to learn. In the doc: "We added shortcuts to the most used editor actions. Some of these actions can also be accessed from the menu on the top of the editor or by right clicking with the mouse on objects and thumbnails.". Why just some of these? Why not all? Why should I learn a full page of shortcuts?
- Finally, website and examples. Hire a top-notch web designer/illustrator. Just take a look of Aviary and Photoshop online. To compete, you should, at least, make something as good looking as these sites. And this doesn't require any designer, but the most talented and experienced ones.
Well, I hope you good luck with your project, and I hope you go on with it. Now it looks as something that not everybody want to test and use, but I believe with some more work on it -- and I'm sure you will not care in spending some money and half a year or one year more on it since you have been on it for 5 years -- you can make something that people would want to use. But, in any case, just remember that you are not the first in the game -- a really important thing in the internet world -- and that your competitors are strong, so it is not going to be an easy thing at all.
Some people here is arguing that a rich feature web based image editor is not useful, but I don't believe that. In fact, it is clear for me that web applications are going to be more and more complex in the next years until coupling the feature-richness of desktop based ones.
In the case of image edition/illustration/design, it might look now a bit useless to have a full featured web editor when you can do it from your desktop computer, but just to point out an example of when it would be useful: you are a designer showing your sketch to your client in the client's office. Then, the client wants to see any simple change in the design, and you could easily do it from the client's PC. No need to carry your own computer at all. Other examples are currently being done with web apps like several people working on the same document. Well, in the end, there are reasons to use complex web apps, and I believe we will all end using mostly cloud based apps instead of desktop apps.
So, the main concept of your app is good (a cloud based image editor) and having it fully featured is also good for me.
But, there are a lot of things wrong in your beta or not as good as I would expect:
- As pointed out a lot of times in this thread, it really needs a lot of work in GUI and usability redesign. I believe the part of your app as coder is good and it could probably be sucessful with a good GUI. But it needs it. Why? If it is an app for designer, then designers should appeal it. And visual/graphic designer/artists - like I am - only appeal good, easy to use and beautiful designed applications. In interface design, "beatiful designed" doesn't have to mean "beautiful" as in visual arts, but something that looks natural to use. One great example might be Google SketchUp. You can use SketchUp from the very first minute, and designing 3d objects require near 0 learning.
- Related to the latest point, you should learn to listen to criticism. I perfectly understand that it is never fun to listen to bad critics of whatevery you do, but, first, no matter what you do, there will be *always* critics on internet. So, try to just forget the non-constructive ones... no need to reply and/or to worry at all. And second, when somebody points out something that dislikes, you should not try to convince him/her that the way you do it is better, but just to take note about it, and if there is a good amount of people thinking the same, then to change it. You know, you can choose to do software for yourself or for other people. In this case your choice was to do it for other people (internet users), so you should be open to how they want to use it. Not an easy task, but probably the only way for success.
- Again, about usage, I might expect coherence always. In one of your videos, I've seen that if you add a border to an image, the border doesn't show until you resize down the image in the container object. By other hand, if you apply a shadow, the image resize down so the shadow can be seen. My personal choice here would be that both things would resize up the container object, but even not thinking in that, there is a clear usage incoherence here. Why both things, border and shadow doesn't do the same thing? Why one resize down and the other not?
- About shortcuts. These looks difficult to learn. In the doc: "We added shortcuts to the most used editor actions. Some of these actions can also be accessed from the menu on the top of the editor or by right clicking with the mouse on objects and thumbnails.". Why just some of these? Why not all? Why should I learn a full page of shortcuts?
- Finally, website and examples. Hire a top-notch web designer/illustrator. Just take a look of Aviary and Photoshop online. To compete, you should, at least, make something as good looking as these sites. And this doesn't require any designer, but the most talented and experienced ones.
Well, I hope you good luck with your project, and I hope you go on with it. Now it looks as something that not everybody want to test and use, but I believe with some more work on it -- and I'm sure you will not care in spending some money and half a year or one year more on it since you have been on it for 5 years -- you can make something that people would want to use. But, in any case, just remember that you are not the first in the game -- a really important thing in the internet world -- and that your competitors are strong, so it is not going to be an easy thing at all.
This is the most awesomest troll on pouet for quite a while. This reminds me of a lot of Amiga "products" that never saw the light.
| Just take a look of Aviary and Photoshop online. To compete, you should, at least, make something as good looking as these sites.
Aviary has 20+ developers and 8 digit seed funding. Adobe? well...
Aviary has 20+ developers and 8 digit seed funding. Adobe? well...
Interesting:
| TRSI ex-coder Spider/T-Bone
A former coder named Spider or T-Bone who is member of TRSI
| ex-TRSI coder Spider/T-Bone
A coder named Spider or T-Bone who is a former member of TRSI
| TRSI ex-coder Spider/T-Bone
A former coder named Spider or T-Bone who is member of TRSI
| ex-TRSI coder Spider/T-Bone
A coder named Spider or T-Bone who is a former member of TRSI
TO much to read in this thread.. dunno if someone already noticed this on youtube.. so excuse me if this is already known..:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWiqZevktY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWiqZevktY
magic: maybe you should interview spider?
Havoc: you could have the honour.. ;)
what honour?
you're gonna interview havoc?!