pouët.net

Phoenix wrote a good piece on how to make good demos and everyone starting out with demomaking could do well by reading it.

http://www.gathering.org/espresso/pages/tg04/demoscene/how_to_make/view_top.html

"You can certainly mix fast and slow parts in your music, but you should
be able to enjoy listening to it by itself, even without a demo to accompany it."

This is not necessarily true... many demos have a perfectly fitting music which would simply loose sense if left alone (Silkcut and Fulcrum are the first examples that come into my mind).

Um, the rule of thirds has to do with the interesction points, not filling each section.

Gloom: I did not like it, some things are to be figured out yourself. (even though i agree on making your demo prosjector-friendly!!!)

This guy must have worked on a lot of demos to have achieved such level of expertise and self-confidence.

Or has seen a shitload of them, which I firmly believe he has. Game-testers become key designers too now and then, just to mention something likewise.

I'll be reading it by the way, seems like a good pass-time anyway :)

everyone is an expert. its when they try to actually make them that everything fucks up ;)

it all sounds like solid advice, now where's my slide rule and my source code ...

plek: sure, you can mock all you want, but the fact still remains - if what's in the text is obvious or "something people should figure out for themselves" it's obvious that many people need a swift kick in the head - just look at all the crap that's being released.. :)

thom: that's right, and apart from that, it specifically says NOT to fill the regions, but just mark interesting spots on any of the intersection points (and not all), and use the opposite intersection to mark secondary spots.

So, filling three vertical sections goes quite against the rule of thirds =)

Gloom the link you gave us look like a recipe to me.
Really, do sceners need a "recipe" to create a demo or just influences?

Of course i will consider it a little but not follow 100% the manual...cause then it's really like a recipe followed exactly as it says in the book

gloom: I wasn't bashing the text, for your information :)

People *do* need a roundhouse kick in the head though. That's a fact.

another fact is: talking and doing are two differents things.

Yeah, and you're our prime example.

Aparently, we're both into this aren't we ? ;)

No, just you.

Considering the tremendous amount of bullshit you have written on this site you're like a model for me (and probably for many), you even lead the number of posts in this very thread.
Face it mac, you're light years ahead, don't be so modest.

Now if you'd only do half the work I get done inbetween, you'd make a good world-citizen. Until then, you'll remain French.

Aaaah! My head asplode!

A howto is the first sign something's not being done right -and I'm talking about the Howto.

This kind of thing should encourage people to attempt aestetically pleasing demos -according to a couple of hints- and for the party only? I'm sure it will deliver *some* fr-025 esque demos, but hardly a fr-025 beater in terms of appeal and fresh insight. There are a lot demos that don't follow these helpful lines that are considered a blessing to their kin.

To force the point home, demos that are made to appeal at parties....Winnerdemo, anybody? That one sure did it's job at BP, and I believe you thought it was a stinker...right gloom? ;)

Stop promoting a new scene bible, please. It's probably useful info for some people, but it's not something plek isn't allowed to lash into.

(He's off meths and allowed outside again)

shifter: actually, no, but now that you mention it.. :) "winnerdemo" doesn't really fit into the category of "my first demo" as it's clearly a jokeprod. the tips from phoenix are not a "recepie" but simple design guidelines for people who are just starting out.

i don't start many threads here, but this one got started because i spent a good long time downloading demos that looked okay on the screenshot but turned out to be total z-clipping, homo camera-moving, ass-ugly textures-using piles of crap.

"The pace of the music should follow the pace of the effects."

switch music and effects in the above sentence. Do the demo to the song, not the song to the demo.. Atleast that way you'll still have some hair left after you finish your prod ;-)

(and yes, the article was pretty good advice. atleast for beginners)

the text only has the very details. the BIG thing is getting the proper coder/graphician/musician combination.
ass-ugly textures will still look ass-ugly even if you keep the rule of thirds.
z-fighting will still remain even if you keep the visuals synced.

the text explains how to do your demo _really good_, when it's already decent enough. it doesn't make magic.