pouët.net

Sorry iro, well youre right some other mainparties might not be that big, that cool, that organized,
but dont you think it was predictable that "MAIN4" could be VERY different ???

If some french sceners try to do something big, invite lots of scene people, announce prices, big compos, serious invitation - the fact "MAIN4" will be different could not be ignored by someone.

For me : If a team organize a party with the slogan "search for the demospirit" and dont even come to visit and or represent themselves on such a french event ... the spirit seems to be total gone.

The only guy from the team who came was Willbe with his helper and i was very happy to welcome him, since he is THE TOP french scener, and a really good person ( not to mention his nice performance ) !!!!

I would have loved to have DTV at the party, to represent their work, present their website and show that french people rock, they decided different !

I guess the reason why people ( including me ) discuss that topic a bit controverse is not the service they do with their site, not the effords they did in the past for streaming,
ITS CLEARLY CAUSED BY HABITUDES AND HOW THEY ACTED SOMETIMES WITH SCENERS AND PARTY ORGAS, demoscene is small and someday it pays back, how you act to people !

@Irokos : il ne s'agit pas de clasher DTV mais de trouver une forme d'intervention qui soit adaptée aux conditions économiques de la scene. Lorsque DTV veut intervenir en demandant une somme extra-ordinaire, ce n'est pas tout à fait normal. Cela dit, c'est des copains.

IMHO : there is no clash about DTV but a question : how to find a model that is shapped to the economic conditions of the scene. If DTV wants to do something by asking us (a lot of) money , it's not quite normal.

AND :



At this moment :

Thanks to scamp and vipri for FREE coverage on BPTV
Thanks to scamp and vipri for FREE coverage on TUM
Thanks to rebels hungary for FREE coverage on MAIN4

For me a stream is a service for those who cant make it to the party, and a nice extra
BUT i wont pay a commercial company for it ! AND if its normal to bill a partystream, DTV is nothing else !

may i suggest a freemium model ?

aka free for a majority of viewers, and premium services for those willing to pay/donate... maybe a delay between free and premium services, or the possibility for buyers /donators to upload their own streams ?

don't flame plz, just trying to figure how a great site like DTV could go on.

Capped.tv don't ask for money and manage to run perfectly, yet d.tv needs 50k euros a year. Am I the only one that finds this very bizarre?

Oh... Didn't know that DocD... Finaly i don't know much about the cooperations between Partyogranizers and Services like DTV... I just though that DTV is a full free service and just travel to each demoparty for fun with a cam to film all :)

So... excuse me for my ignorance in this.

Malodix.. No you're not alone... And its very suspect that dax from DTV doesn't answer anymore to this discussion now... It says a lot.

Is there a way of listing all entries with youtube-video?

youtube still isn't really an option due to the inferior quality

they did cover f06 for free back then.

...what the FUCK? when was the last party you paid entrance for?

Gargaj: I don't think that it has something to do with me here... but if you want my 3 euros please gimme your bank data. i'll send you !!!

yeh, i want your 3 euros for every party you attend while i sit at home watching on the stream.

and don't donate (obviously)

btw, there's a donate option on capped.tv as well, in case you hadn't noticed.

Where are the details for the asked 50k ???

Does it take so long to write down the list? The more time passes, to me it looks like they want to maintain some sort of salary. It happens in many associations in fact.

Voor niks gaat de zon op, stelletje ouwe zeurpieten!

H2O: Even the BPTV streams weren't exactly free - more along the lines of "a couple thousand €". And we took care to take that money out of the sponsor/donation pool and not from the people attending the party. And even that sum has only been possible because several companies have sponsored or helped us with things that would have tripled the costs otherwise (Viprinet paid for most of the bandwidth, satis&fy gave us video equipment, and Adobe sponsored the streaming software).

Providing a live video stream of a party still isn't a trivial task, neither work nor money wise. It takes a lot of dedicated people to make it happen.

irokos:

be sure that i know what im talking about.
im sorry that you dont...

you talk about Main 2006. did you as french scener support the party?
did you support it 2007-2008 or even this year?
i havent seen you there....but i saw the hard core of the scene beein there.

like cybernostra said:
better pay 100 sceners to come to a party, than paying for a stream to support couchcrowding.

and:

still no budget details from DTV.

DOCD :

Have to defend irokos !!!

He planned to come, being part of the core scener bunch, believe me, very bad things happend around him and an absolute reasonable decision that he didnt come.
And the years before i met him on main in marseille ...

KB :

Agree to all what you said, but we all managed to stream without payin a "scene" site or lets say "scene friendly company" to do it ...

Gargaj :

Iam now more concerned WHY you got free stream services from DTV when other scene events had to pay ? Its a random party gift ?

OR MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN STATE MONEY WHICH MUST BEEN BURNED REASONABLE TO NOT LOWER THE FUTURE STATE DONATIONS ?????

Kb: True. Unless a scene streaming service is hosted in some university datacenter, traffic is quite expensive.

On the other hand, if we would run a BP.TV-like stream 24h/365 days (say 1000 viewers on a 512kbit stream), the yearly cost would be in the area of <15k Euro. I doubt DTV has that many concurrent viewers.

However, DTV is talking about a 50k budget. That's a hell lot of money.

I guess the root of the problem is that it's not run entirely by volunteers and has not been formed by volunteers, but by people who expect that their travel expenses for going to partys is covered etc.

That's very different from how other scene resources work - we all go to partyies anyway, so we do not expect some organisation to pay for our expenses.

And seeing that all other known scene sites are run by unpaid volunteers, I think DTV is pretty off to expect finding much support for a fundraise to actually PAY someone for what should be his hobby.

DTV would have my support for a fundraiser to cover cost of data traffic. They do not have my support for selling access to scene content without asking the authors for permission, and they do not have my support for a scene fundraiser where it is highly questionable into which pockets that money is going.

To add to this: I think the whole concept how all these french scene thingies are working is a dead end. Instead of moving from "scene sellout by claiming a demoparty is an art festival, grabbing public money" to "scene should pay for what we do, because we no longer get public money", they should have seen this as a hobby/passion from the very start, and any kind of money flowing in as an added bonus.

I guess you should take it as :

THANK YOU FOR THE INTEREST ! THANKS FOR THE PUBLIC HELP !

Lets make a good party, share with all sceners, show the public people that scene can be art - and not count its lifetime sponsoring from the public !

The problem happens only if you calculate fix with that money, and your project goes down when the state help does not enter anymore.

But also german parties seems to be fixed in relations, there its not public money, its sponsoring partners, as we all saw if a big name stops, even the biggest parties get in trouble ...

ok apologizes to irokos.
im sorry bro.

In any case it would be helpful to see a budget plan so people can see where the donated money actually goes to.

And Dax/DTV not treating this forum as a write-only medium obviously would help, too ;)

it's a special kind of permission, write-once

I'm not sure why there should be any expectation that DTV provide their distribution services for free, just on the basis that the content they distribute is free. Isn't that like asking your ISP to give you a free subscription because you only ever use it to download free porn?

Apart from that... what everyone else said. Personally I don't see DTV as providing 50K of value to the scene, and if they want to operate as a commercial concern then they have to justify it, not expect donations.