Essay about the demoscene
category: general [glöplog]
In my early teens (x86 days), i discovered the demo scene by accident through a diskmag and some demos that came with a computer/gaming mag. As i had no modem and no computer interested friends i had no idea what it was all about, but i was just stunned by the amazing demos and the fact that people were making them. I tried to emulate them with my available tools, Qbasic (!!), gifAnimator and a shareware raytracer (and once i managed to make the screen go psychedelic by inputting random stuff in debug, a personal high point).
I have later gained a bit more understanding (i know what realtime is and so forth) and a lot more demos, but i have remained a fan on the sideline. I am currently doing a BA in fine art, and for my essay on a medium i have decided to write about the demo scene. It would be really helpful if anyone of you scenesters would care to answer these questions, in whatever detail you wish:
a) How and when did you become involved in the demo scene?
b) What is your motivation, and how do you feel about putting so much time and effort into something with such a limited audience?
c) With present day´s computers being so powerful that the need for heavy programming is diminishing, where do you think the demo scene currently is and should go? Do you think there should be continued focus on filesize and/or hardware restrictions, or rather on design, image quality etc.?
If anyone cares to answer i would be really grateful (it´s not just for my essay, i am genuinely curious).
Highest regards,
Pål Gumpen
I have later gained a bit more understanding (i know what realtime is and so forth) and a lot more demos, but i have remained a fan on the sideline. I am currently doing a BA in fine art, and for my essay on a medium i have decided to write about the demo scene. It would be really helpful if anyone of you scenesters would care to answer these questions, in whatever detail you wish:
a) How and when did you become involved in the demo scene?
b) What is your motivation, and how do you feel about putting so much time and effort into something with such a limited audience?
c) With present day´s computers being so powerful that the need for heavy programming is diminishing, where do you think the demo scene currently is and should go? Do you think there should be continued focus on filesize and/or hardware restrictions, or rather on design, image quality etc.?
If anyone cares to answer i would be really grateful (it´s not just for my essay, i am genuinely curious).
Highest regards,
Pål Gumpen
dude, I'd really like to try to answer this but not on a public site like pouet.net. please state your e-mail address ;)
so, the short answers are:
a) a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away
b) because it is fun and the people are nice
c) design, and computers are only as powerful as their users.
so, the short answers are:
a) a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away
b) because it is fun and the people are nice
c) design, and computers are only as powerful as their users.
what school are you doing your bfa for? and yeah, you might get more answers by email
a) i saw a tv spot about the party 94 and went to demo parties in 95 to see for my self (and got interested - i was programming a lot at home earlier)
b) i do it for my own personal interest. i like to produce something and demonstrate it to my friends while partying. a wider audience does not have immediate appeal to me.
c) i have never been an expert on taking full advantage of the present hardware, so for me it's just about having fun.
Mail me if I should elaborate (see profile)
b) i do it for my own personal interest. i like to produce something and demonstrate it to my friends while partying. a wider audience does not have immediate appeal to me.
c) i have never been an expert on taking full advantage of the present hardware, so for me it's just about having fun.
Mail me if I should elaborate (see profile)
e-mail address please.
Hey guys, thanks for the good response already! I should have realized that email is a better idea, its popethesailorslut@yahoo.no
hermes: i´m norwegian, but i´m in university college Falmouth, located in Cornwall, England.
nosfe: thanks a lot!!
hermes: i´m norwegian, but i´m in university college Falmouth, located in Cornwall, England.
nosfe: thanks a lot!!
thumbs up for email addy :D
paalsteinhard> You could also try surveymonkey or something similar for an online survey.
a) PROBE_TBL sent me stash on irc
b) i don't put much time and effort in it
c) it'll go where it already is: making cool realtime graphics.
b) i don't put much time and effort in it
c) it'll go where it already is: making cool realtime graphics.
find your answers here:
http://www.bitfellas.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?40484.0
http://www.bitfellas.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?40484.0
question b) shows a misunderstanding of the motivations. So everyone should get into movies because it has a bigger audience or what ? :) There are a gazillion of hobbies with even smaller audience than that of the demoscene. how sad those hobbists should feel...
hi there sailorboy!
a) cracktros way way back (~1990). after that i was kinda forced into demo coding because on atari falcon (1996) there wasn't much else.
b) it was new and exciting to me, loads of stuff to learn. after that it became more and more tradition and meeting up with interesting people (yeah yeah, i know, i'm less motivated today to do hardcore code ;))
c) either getting the most out of classic hardware.. or getting as interesting effects on screen as possible (like this new mandelbulb thing, for instance)
a) cracktros way way back (~1990). after that i was kinda forced into demo coding because on atari falcon (1996) there wasn't much else.
b) it was new and exciting to me, loads of stuff to learn. after that it became more and more tradition and meeting up with interesting people (yeah yeah, i know, i'm less motivated today to do hardcore code ;))
c) either getting the most out of classic hardware.. or getting as interesting effects on screen as possible (like this new mandelbulb thing, for instance)
a) 1988/9, saw some cracktros, decided we could do better
b) it beats watching tv & the audience was rather big back in those days
c) there's room for all options, just look at current prods
b) it beats watching tv & the audience was rather big back in those days
c) there's room for all options, just look at current prods
Oswald: If you're hardcore partycoding at a party of, say, 80 people, at some point you do kindof start to wonder why you are putting yourself through this :)
Gargaj, that's a different story. The general view however is not that "wow, how limitied audience we do have" as the question implies. imho :)
Hi, thanks again for the amazing response! I just realized i made a reply mistake, so theres a big thankyou to macaw as well.
uncle-x: A survey could be a good idea, but i don´t know what i should put as answer alternatives, and it might be limiting if people don´t feel that their opinion fits any of the alternatives. So i´ll stick with this format for now, but thanks!
skrebbel: Thankyou!
pohar: I registered on bitfellas, but my registration form hasnt come through yet, waiting eagerly.. Thanks!
Oswald: It´s not my opinion at all that people should go into mainstream media just to get an audience. On the contrary, in my essay i hope to show how demos etc. is just as valid as other forms of culture even if it isn´t watched, or even known, by multimillions of people. I´m sorry if the question came across otherwise!
ear-x: Thanks a lot! And yeah, mandelbulb = WOW!
Rowley Birkin: Thankyou!
uncle-x: A survey could be a good idea, but i don´t know what i should put as answer alternatives, and it might be limiting if people don´t feel that their opinion fits any of the alternatives. So i´ll stick with this format for now, but thanks!
skrebbel: Thankyou!
pohar: I registered on bitfellas, but my registration form hasnt come through yet, waiting eagerly.. Thanks!
Oswald: It´s not my opinion at all that people should go into mainstream media just to get an audience. On the contrary, in my essay i hope to show how demos etc. is just as valid as other forms of culture even if it isn´t watched, or even known, by multimillions of people. I´m sorry if the question came across otherwise!
ear-x: Thanks a lot! And yeah, mandelbulb = WOW!
Rowley Birkin: Thankyou!
paalsteinhard you could just make a survey that has "other" options for all 3 questions.. Point being it might be easier for you to collect anonymous info that way.
1) watched demos, intros and cracktros without really knowing what they were about on my atari and on friends amigas. tried to hack some myself but really got involved when I visited my first party (computer convention 95) which I got a tip about on a BBS that I visited frequently...
2) it's just a real strong hobby of mine and it beats laying puzzles. The number of people watching my prods is inrelevant, but fun to entertain people. learning to others can be real fun too
3) I think the demoscene is about making cool stuff you haven't seen before (even tho it might just be "remixes" of other peoples ideas). If that involves getting something really small and still impressive that's cool, if it's big but with a design or just looks good, that's cool too.
2) it's just a real strong hobby of mine and it beats laying puzzles. The number of people watching my prods is inrelevant, but fun to entertain people. learning to others can be real fun too
3) I think the demoscene is about making cool stuff you haven't seen before (even tho it might just be "remixes" of other peoples ideas). If that involves getting something really small and still impressive that's cool, if it's big but with a design or just looks good, that's cool too.
a) i married to a bulgarian coder who appeared to be member of farbrausch, he took me on a honeymoon to Copyparty'88 where i met other people like Rowley Birkin and Gargaj's twin brother Ralph.
b) i cook my husband's dinner when he's busy coding kkrieger final and other secret projects, sometimes he gets too carried away and i even need to reheat it two times in the microwave. his favourite dinner is Schnitzel with baked potato.
c) in the future, demosceners will become too old to understand modern day computers and get artritis and similar illnesses that prevents them from coding and pixelling. when that happens, i think the scene will just disappear slowly! but we can still make vomiting videos (with fake teeth in the pool) or secretly pulling out someone's stoma for überlol partyvideos that wade will disapprove!
b) i cook my husband's dinner when he's busy coding kkrieger final and other secret projects, sometimes he gets too carried away and i even need to reheat it two times in the microwave. his favourite dinner is Schnitzel with baked potato.
c) in the future, demosceners will become too old to understand modern day computers and get artritis and similar illnesses that prevents them from coding and pixelling. when that happens, i think the scene will just disappear slowly! but we can still make vomiting videos (with fake teeth in the pool) or secretly pulling out someone's stoma for überlol partyvideos that wade will disapprove!
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Started following in 1990 when a friend showed me some bbstros. Created some PC-speaker music and messed around in Deluxe Paint and such until 1992 when I went to The Party. I'd say that that is when I got "involved", though your definiton-mileage may vary.a) How and when did you become involved in the demo scene?
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Limited in numbers, perhaps, but I'd rather show something to 10 people who GET what I'm doing rather than 1000 who couldn't care less.b) What is your motivation, and how do you feel about putting so much time and effort into something with such a limited audience?
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I think your logic is flawed - more than ever is "heavy" (or indeed: clever) programming needed. If you want to make a prod stand out in 2010, the same qualities apply that did in 2000 or 1990.c) With present day´s computers being so powerful that the need for heavy programming is diminishing,
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A weird question, and impossible to answer on general terms. For me, the things that make up a good demo is relatively unchanged since I started watching them - only the resolution and image/sound quality has changed. It still takes dedication and skill to make a good demo. Sure, we might get inspiration from other sources now, but it's pretty much the same.where do you think the demo scene currently is and should go? Do you think there should be continued focus on filesize and/or hardware restrictions, or rather on design, image quality etc.?
With regards to filesize, I think it's only logical for coders in particular to be attracted to artificial boundries, and there is a clear indication that the "big demos" of earlier times is starting to die out, and smaller, more targeted prods, are "in". It'll probably stay this way until the scene dies..
Its a shame people are submitting information privately over email. I think for most of us, certainly those involved in the 90's or earlier, piracy was a big factor - but these days there is much more separation between crack scene and demo scene. I'd say if you've gotten away with it for the last 20+ years then you can probably stop holding your breath about now.
Me personally, I was a tiny small league player in the Amiga scene.
I first discovered the scene from a diskmagazine which just happened to be on the same disc as some game that I wanted. I'd been pirating C64 games (solely with friends) for years and started to do the same with Amiga games. It was only when I got that particular disk, with ICE issue #2 on it that I realised just how organised the crack scene / demo scene was. From that magazine I got my first mail-trading contact, and it spread from there. Games trading by mail started to loose interest to demo trading, and the demos encouraged me to visit my first party, which was the Digital Symposium in Rochdale, in 1991 I think.
At that party I got chatting with a bunch of guys in Destiny. I'd brought along a disk of some DeluxePaint images I'd drawn and convinced them that I would be a benefit to their group somehow.
My motivation at that time was just to be involved with people that enjoyed doing the same things I did - playing around with computers. I particularly enjoyed knocking together logos and images in Deluxe Paint, and loved the 'social' aspect of the scene. Most of my friends were 50+ miles away but we kept in touch with long mailtrading letters, or beertrading with the Nordic contacts I had. I didnt particularly pay much attention to the fact that what little productive output I generated was seen by such a small audience (if indeed it was seen at all)
I started to lose interest when modem trading became popular. I think at that point it became more about getting the new stuff as fast as possible rather than spending time and making friends. I cant comment authoritatively on how things are now (I left the productive scene waaay back), but it seems like the social aspect is a lot stronger again now.
Future scene is cool. Gloom summed it up *superbly*.
Me personally, I was a tiny small league player in the Amiga scene.
I first discovered the scene from a diskmagazine which just happened to be on the same disc as some game that I wanted. I'd been pirating C64 games (solely with friends) for years and started to do the same with Amiga games. It was only when I got that particular disk, with ICE issue #2 on it that I realised just how organised the crack scene / demo scene was. From that magazine I got my first mail-trading contact, and it spread from there. Games trading by mail started to loose interest to demo trading, and the demos encouraged me to visit my first party, which was the Digital Symposium in Rochdale, in 1991 I think.
At that party I got chatting with a bunch of guys in Destiny. I'd brought along a disk of some DeluxePaint images I'd drawn and convinced them that I would be a benefit to their group somehow.
My motivation at that time was just to be involved with people that enjoyed doing the same things I did - playing around with computers. I particularly enjoyed knocking together logos and images in Deluxe Paint, and loved the 'social' aspect of the scene. Most of my friends were 50+ miles away but we kept in touch with long mailtrading letters, or beertrading with the Nordic contacts I had. I didnt particularly pay much attention to the fact that what little productive output I generated was seen by such a small audience (if indeed it was seen at all)
I started to lose interest when modem trading became popular. I think at that point it became more about getting the new stuff as fast as possible rather than spending time and making friends. I cant comment authoritatively on how things are now (I left the productive scene waaay back), but it seems like the social aspect is a lot stronger again now.
Future scene is cool. Gloom summed it up *superbly*.
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a) How and when did you become involved in the demo scene?
In 1992, I was looking for a C compiler for Amiga and found an assembler instead. Then I started coding demos. My first party was South Sealand '95.
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b) What is your motivation, and how do you feel about putting so much time and effort into something with such a limited audience?
For me, it is all about the live audience. Nothing beats hundreds of people clapping and cheering as they see your demo on the big screen for the first time.
The competitive element is very important as well. The striving to constantly improve and to come up with something new and amazing so you can win the next compo.
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c) With present day´s computers being so powerful that the need for heavy programming is diminishing, where do you think the demo scene currently is and should go?
There is no such thing as "enough" processing power. More powerful computers give new possibilities, but the challenge of putting them to good use is just as big as always (though it is a dramatically different challenge).
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Do you think there should be continued focus on filesize and/or hardware restrictions, or rather on design, image quality etc.?
All of them. One of the amazing aspects of the demoscene is its diversity. Different people like different kinds of challenges, so we will continue to see everything from C64 256b intros to big high-end demos with beautiful artwork. And enjoy all of these on their own terms.
Come on - if I wanted to read, I'd like go to school (that's a real Beavis & Butthead quote btw.)
a) How and when did you become involved in the demo scene?
2005ish after watching MFX's Aether from a random video site. Yes I'm a newer scener :(
b) What is your motivation, and how do you feel about putting so much time and effort into something with such a limited audience?
I do video capture and encoding and distribution [see capped.tv] I don't know what you're talking about! The people around the scene are fairly cool, and mostly for fun.
c) With present day´s computers being so powerful that the need for heavy programming is diminishing, where do you think the demo scene currently is and should go? Do you think there should be continued focus on filesize and/or hardware restrictions, or rather on design, image quality etc.?
Sure you'll have people who'll use libs and take 'easy' methods to do things, but there will still be those few hardcore coders that refuse or think they have a better way, using all that processing power to actually accomplish more and more impressive things. See sizecoded intros for a example.
2005ish after watching MFX's Aether from a random video site. Yes I'm a newer scener :(
b) What is your motivation, and how do you feel about putting so much time and effort into something with such a limited audience?
I do video capture and encoding and distribution [see capped.tv] I don't know what you're talking about! The people around the scene are fairly cool, and mostly for fun.
c) With present day´s computers being so powerful that the need for heavy programming is diminishing, where do you think the demo scene currently is and should go? Do you think there should be continued focus on filesize and/or hardware restrictions, or rather on design, image quality etc.?
Sure you'll have people who'll use libs and take 'easy' methods to do things, but there will still be those few hardcore coders that refuse or think they have a better way, using all that processing power to actually accomplish more and more impressive things. See sizecoded intros for a example.
a) I think it's best if you read my interview in hugi#35 here
b) What blueberry said, there's no thing that can compare to experience a cheering crowd when your production is being shown live :)
c) Growing effect complexity scales with growing computing power. You'll always see a constant evolution throughout the time, mind the pc 4k intros in the last 5 years, they've changed a lot for the better. In my opinion, sizecoding is still as essential to intro coding as it was many years ago, because it's a boundary of rules that make up a fair competition. It's always been: "Show what you can do on the target platform in just x bytes." It should stay that way.
b) What blueberry said, there's no thing that can compare to experience a cheering crowd when your production is being shown live :)
c) Growing effect complexity scales with growing computing power. You'll always see a constant evolution throughout the time, mind the pc 4k intros in the last 5 years, they've changed a lot for the better. In my opinion, sizecoding is still as essential to intro coding as it was many years ago, because it's a boundary of rules that make up a fair competition. It's always been: "Show what you can do on the target platform in just x bytes." It should stay that way.
