Demo sizes - what the !#@$!@ ??
category: general [glöplog]
1.44MB democompo!
hells yeah, xernobyl!
well,
debris with its 177kb has its wow factor
frameranger with its 60mb has its wow factor
so, i dont give a shit, as long as there's a wow factor :)
and subtile (personal) hint: 60mb isnt enough, double it :)
debris with its 177kb has its wow factor
frameranger with its 60mb has its wow factor
so, i dont give a shit, as long as there's a wow factor :)
and subtile (personal) hint: 60mb isnt enough, double it :)
just get rid of size-limits at all in the demo compo.
--- insert KEiTO's text here ---
Hyde: what makes megatexture so lame?
preacher didn't show up in this thread yet, but I subscribe to whatever he will say and post the usual "what preacher said" in advance.
Maali:
yes.
The art here is all about astonishing people, showing them something they didn't think could be done at x fps or in x kb or on x platform or by only x persons or in only x number of hours at the partyplace or with x level of fidelity/quality/quantity/complexity.
That said: I -like- compos with size restrictions. They give groups without 3d modelling artists a chance.
yes.
The art here is all about astonishing people, showing them something they didn't think could be done at x fps or in x kb or on x platform or by only x persons or in only x number of hours at the partyplace or with x level of fidelity/quality/quantity/complexity.
That said: I -like- compos with size restrictions. They give groups without 3d modelling artists a chance.
Also, for demos indeed the size antimatters, as somebody said, for size limit we have other competitions.
oh, and speaking as someone who works at one of those bloatware companies, what a fucking joke to complain about 'bloat'. ND's demo engine is < 1 meg, maybe even half that. Our demos are the size of the mp3 and the 3d assets :p
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That said: I -like- compos with size restrictions. They give groups without 3d modelling artists a chance.
Not only you - I think many people do indeed appreciate size limited productions according to the firs positions in this list:
Let the demomakers make them of whatever size they please. There was a time when 1mb was considered "massive". Why should we impose some arbitrary restriction now?
If you want sizecoding, look at the 64k, 4k, 1k, and 256b prods.
If you want sizecoding, look at the 64k, 4k, 1k, and 256b prods.
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On one hand I'd like to say I agree fully with this. I personally won't bother with anything over 1Mb unless it's been recommended to me. I would happily DL a heap of mediocre 64k's. But would be pissed if I DL'ed just one shitty 'full demo' (>1Mb). It's all about the context.Many demos being released at the moment are >30MB. Ok,ok, so we have >1TB harddrives and fast inet.. but WTF? People, have you no shame? Where is your pride? your finesse? you sense of right and wrong? your style? Don't you know that 64K should be enough for everybody? (ref: Gates)
-- but seriously:
Part of making a demo is showing technical elegance, in addition to the art, direction and sound track. Bloated demos are not elegant! In fact, if you don't care about size, why not just release the DIVX video?
We should re-instate the 8MB size limit on all PC demos. (Yeah, I'm old..)
Say NO! to bloatware, please!
But that's just me, and I do try to be objective when I'm not caught up in the fun of trolling. Soooo....
Objectively:
If a demo is REALLY GOOD, in that it has BOTH polished design and code. Then WHO CARES how big it is?
Elitist-pricks seems to be the answer to that question, (if that could be considered objective). No offense intended to any people here of course. I would have to be considered part of that group too, because of my opinions you see.
But really, if someone wants to make a demo which needs 8Gb or more of data, who am I to tell them that they cannot? It does seem a bit retarded to me, but then my productions probably seem a bit retarded to someone else. So I can't exactly say that my opinion is the 'be all and end all', even if it were shared by the majority.
Isn't the scene about, at least on some level, challenging the limits of what is possible. Surely that includes challenging the common demoscene sensibilities as well as code. Some groups make deliberately bloated demos for this very reason.
And at the end of the day, that's ok with me. I just won't be downloading such demos myself.
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Let the demomakers make them of whatever size they please. There was a time when 1mb was considered "massive". Why should we impose some arbitrary restriction now?
If you want sizecoding, look at the 64k, 4k, 1k, and 256b prods.
Agreed!
Otherwise, are we going to ban groups like Fairlight from releasing epic, well designed demos or tell Maxon his wild demos are no longer welcome in the scene?
There's more to the scene than coding and optimising.
i understand the original post a bit i think though. it is annoying sometimes waiting for a long time for a demo to download because it's so big then unzipping it and then watching it and being disappointed and feeling upset at having gone through that whole multi-minuted process. :P
when streaming video versions of demos are available i tend to watch that first even if the quality is crappier and the file size is bigger... it starts immediately!
so perhaps there is the answer. everybody be sure to provide demoscene.tv, capped.tv, youtube or vimeo stream when you release your demo! if not it better be a really small download or trc_wm will eat your soul.
when streaming video versions of demos are available i tend to watch that first even if the quality is crappier and the file size is bigger... it starts immediately!
so perhaps there is the answer. everybody be sure to provide demoscene.tv, capped.tv, youtube or vimeo stream when you release your demo! if not it better be a really small download or trc_wm will eat your soul.
trc: if you think frameranger is big at 60mb, you should see how big it could have been. for example there's no lightmaps because there wasnt any space for it - we did it all realtime instead. the data is all packed and reduced, although there's a tradeoff between size and fast loading times - something we did a lot of work on this time round to reduce.
some demo content just needs more space. if you want actual proper graphics, textures and so on that look good at 720p or even higher, it costs. if you just want some untextured cubes or particles, that can probably be done in less.
if you think you can do the same content and fidelity in 8mb, then prove it. (bearing in mind the music alone for our 8 minute demo at 160 kbps eats more than that, so you might want to start with trying to generate the music. good luck!)
if anything i'd like the size limit to go up. how about 128mb next year? :) why have silly artificial limits placed on the democompo? size limits used to be roughly related to e.g. memory and bandwidth - it kindof made sense to have a 16mb limit when we only had 16mb of memory to load the data into. it's not at all related anymore - i can fit far more in memory than i can store in the demo datafile.
some demo content just needs more space. if you want actual proper graphics, textures and so on that look good at 720p or even higher, it costs. if you just want some untextured cubes or particles, that can probably be done in less.
if you think you can do the same content and fidelity in 8mb, then prove it. (bearing in mind the music alone for our 8 minute demo at 160 kbps eats more than that, so you might want to start with trying to generate the music. good luck!)
if anything i'd like the size limit to go up. how about 128mb next year? :) why have silly artificial limits placed on the democompo? size limits used to be roughly related to e.g. memory and bandwidth - it kindof made sense to have a 16mb limit when we only had 16mb of memory to load the data into. it's not at all related anymore - i can fit far more in memory than i can store in the demo datafile.
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everybody be sure to provide demoscene.tv, capped.tv, youtube or vimeo stream when you release your demo! if not it better be a really small download or trc_wm will eat your soul.
hear hear. Argeed. But I believe this may be the case already.
Although nothing beats the real thing of course, no matter what the size. To be fair.
Democoders note: If you want me to watch you demo as you intended either keep the size down or the actual design/code content/awesomeness in proportion with the filesize.
Anyway, go make a 40k about it.
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Democoders note: If you want me to watch you demo
not too bothered about that actually, thanks.
We've actually started working on a 2600 demo collection ages ago, but we ran into technical problems in the HW side (which I plan to overcome when I find the bloody time for it ;)
http://oldskool.wamma.fi/triptych_screenshots/
I've always liked the idea of demopacks (my favorite is Calodox's 4k pack)
http://oldskool.wamma.fi/triptych_screenshots/
I've always liked the idea of demopacks (my favorite is Calodox's 4k pack)
you want to know the real difference? 10 years ago if you showed someone that had no relation whatsoever to the demoscene a demo, he shitted bricks. today (if they aint from ukraine, and still) they dont find a demo appealing or impressing.
why? demoscene aint dead, it just sux!
why? demoscene aint dead, it just sux!
With people like you, yes, indeed, it sucks.
### size, people complaining ###
$$$ 20090911: Illegal Internet Telepathy Attempt Detected, all animals are to be expelled from zoo ###
??? 20090911: NEVAR FORGET! ???
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you want to know the real difference? 10 years ago if you showed someone that had no relation whatsoever to the demoscene a demo, he shitted bricks. today (if they aint from ukraine, and still) they dont find a demo appealing or impressing.
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The full demo was released on October 9, 2008 on the PlayStation Store. On December 6, 2008, it was reported that Linger in Shadows was the top selling game on the PlayStation Store.
From here with proper references.
Now, get a fucking clue.
