pouët.net

Oh wait your mean that OS where in 2009 still nothing works unless you install heaps of additional libs? Yeah, that makes sense :)

smash: Don't forget that there's still video memory, BIOS ROM etc - so if you want to be safe, design your own platform that REALLY has only 4kb of ROM (that's where your demo runs on)! And maybe no RAM at all?

btw, while we're at it.

can has kkrunchy with proper error messages when dll's are missing? :(

Optanes: imho, d3dx is usually accepted because you need it anyway to use most DX applications (like games). And afaik one version of the d3dx-dll ships with the DX-installation, the problem is just that the dll is frequently updated.

yup, also the SDK of DirectX has some newer version of that dll than the actual official Runtime provides most of the time !
doesnt change the fact that most intros just need the one .dll working with win7 nowadays...dunno which one that is !
i just use _36 as it works with ps3_0 and i even dunno if an earlier version would do the job aswell...

once again: most intros just dont use any functions of directX at all, just drawing 2 triangles to have some quad to place pixels on + compile_shader-functions...so its only necessary to use that dll because without you wouldnt be able to use GPUs properly !
( ok, that applies to 4ks, never did a pc-64k so far because im a lamah ;) )

src: d3dx is not updated at all by the operating system. those games that use it, actually supply the redistributable, which intros should also supply if intromakers don't want people to go and find them on the interwebs.

and why sdl or fmod dlls are not acceptable but d3dx is? none of them exists in the base os installation, none of them are part of os updates and all of them are used by many applications (which usually don't share their dependencies on a system folder).

quite simple: in the DOS era, you could access the GPU directly without any library. On Windows, you either depend on microsoft's way (directX) or the GPU vendor's way (OpenGL via the GPU drivers). There's simply no other way. If windows is your target platform, DirectX (d3dx_??.dll) or OpenGL (opengl32.dll and GPU drivers) are the only possibilities to directly talk to the GPU.

Oh noes! I'm using an nVidia / ATI dll that isn't shipped with windows! I'm guilty of depending on third party dlls when distributing my 4k! HORRORS! PANIC!

...please

xTr1m: Please note the difference: d3dx in not Direct3D, it is Direct3DX. A library that is designed as an extension to Direct3D. Absolutely not a neccessity to access GPU with Direct3D.

Okay, no need to question that. But it's a DLL that comes with DirectX, which is a library as a whole. When you download the latest DirectX, all the ...x_??.dlls are installed.

if the means are there, why not use it instead of being anal about it?

if you want no dll go back in time when no hardware-acceleration took place !
i mean: why is it called GPU ? Graphics Processing Unit that is !
ofcoz one needs some gateway to access it ;)

and having to ship the dll with every intro would only lead to thousands of the same dlls on ppls harddisks !

i just cant see where the challenge is in downloading a runtime from an official site 2-5 times a year !
if intro doesnt work -> check official site and get newer version of runtime !

let's go back to univbe!!!111

optanes: it depends whether you call d3d part of the OS or not, but it's pretty close to that. d3dx (inc all previous version dlls) is installed as part of the d3d install, therefore d3dx is part of d3d.
of course, one could use opengl and GLSL instead to do the exact same job, which is installed as part of the vendor driver and therefore an "essential system requirement" and fair game even by your rules, no? but for the sake of stability and performance across different hardware vendors d3d is preferable.

opengl and GLSL don't quite do as much "job" as d3dx... there's an advantage to use d3dx and d3d.. a BIG one actually :)

i havent compared yet, as i´m too lazy to get into openGL again !
but isnt it like:
OpenGL: one call to open a quad ! ( put pixels via shader )
DirectX: one needs an array for data of 2 triangles plus the call to draw ! ( put pixels via shader )

as said, i dunno about oGL, but it seems its in lead with some few bytes there...

c++-code is way more expensive than shadercode, so i guess oGL needs more code to get the shaders running ??

Pan:


would be nice to know the reason of not pushing it through the "we push everything else" windows update...

yea but you need the whole extensions function names afterwards.. so you're in.. :/ size wise.. and who would want fixed function pipeline rendering nowadays..

and for your info about msvcrt*.dll ... I get a lot of error messages on win7 about this one.
After checking, it has only
msvcrt.dll
msvcrt20.dll
msvcrt40.dll
(in various subirs.. probably both for 32 bits and 64 bits).

rmeht: cos 9000000000000000 windows users dont need them?

/me pops his head throug the semiopen door:
hey people! actual _still_ doesnt mean current, mkay.

maali: wrong. they DO need them. in fact the entire crowd of developers have to ship them manually along with their application.

:P

I think that the things will become worse...
I'm still using winXP, but with new OSes from m$, restriction in run programs, compilers that add more scrap to .exe and so on...

maybe develop intros for m$Win will became face some problems..

As some pointed here, there are only some ways to do the things using some dll's (the gateways... )

What about linux? You can have a very costumise and diferent linux instalation... what is the rules for intros in that case? what can they use or not? I think there is no such thing as "it comes by default instalation of linux system" :S

Maybe we need a global "lame or not lame" pool of acceptance of what can be used or not :S

I remmember old days computers... they have diferent soundCards..
Nowadays, also the soundcards are become programable...
If someone develop a specif intro for it.. it will much probabaly need the correct drivers installed..

and so in.. and so on...

Bonus poinst!
Each extra dll adds X points to your intro and intro intro cannot exceed Y kb plus Z ponits! :D

poor kammu... don't worry, there's always dosbox