pouët.net

i really don't see the problem with double standards, or triple. this site is run by a couple of people called the admins, and helped by some gloperators just for kicks. these people decide what's on the site and what isn't. what's so difficult about that? why does everything need to go along precisely defined rules, or else you're a hypocrite? with anything so vaguely defined as the demoscene, this is just not possible. the pouet database contains what its owners want it to contain.

as far as i'm concerned, right now it's gargaj's calling.

..which is exactly why a flood of shit-prods (be it BITS or random fake-user "I'm gonna try to troll now LOL!"-prods) = noise. Yet another reason not to direct demoscene wannabes to Pouet, and we don't really need more of those.

skrebbel: I'm totally with you on that one. For once, Wikipedia tells it like it is:

People are held to different standards all the time, especially on Pouet (I'll just refer you to the gazillion "EXPECTED MORE!"-comments on FR-minus prods), and so what if Plastic released a demo for the PS3 that you can buy? BITS isn't the same. Different standards, in more than one way. Also: with regards to this shit - well, the title says it all, doesn't it? Blatant and obvious attempts at being a prick is different from "This is our first prod and it sort of sucks, but I hope you don't delete it from Pouet".

the intention does not count. a rule is a rule!

bits gone, plastic gone, those old dutch thingies by the group who made vectordemo (cant come up with the name now) except for vectordemo were commercial projects as well: out == out.

or we just let this bits thing pass and continue as if nothing happened, you know, letting things blow over. that appears to be rather hard for some of you.

Yeah, fuck the fucking demoscene outreach. I really mean it. Thank you for your time.

horse renoir: ultraforce

"People - don't stop donating!"

purely sticking to havoc's formerly mentioned approach, if you cant download it for what it is, then it really shouldnt be on pouet i guess.

...which does present an interesting case considering the 3dmarks where the demo mode is still free, but eh...

My position is that intention does indeed count and that black and white rules are stupid.


..and thank you for.. oh, nothing really. Demoscene outreach is important, but I (and many more) hesitate to direct people here, simply because they are either laughed at and humiliated, or can't find the good prods for all the trolling or spamming BITS-shite. :)

i doubt BITS would stand a chance in an after-Breakpoint season (unless the thumbdown-brigade once again decides to direct all their attention to it - hello irony), and out of season most of the comments and added prods are for weirdo platforms a newcomer wouldnt care about anyway.

Newbies probably wouldn't install atari/spectrum/etc emulators first just see a prod. They'd be after pyrotech flybys or some shit like that.

That's bullshit! But if you really think so, where can the new comers find good prods?

It's ironic how one without freedom of speech can't complain about having free speech.

It's even more ironic how many with freedom of speech will complain about not having free speech.

Havoc has leading.

zefyros: I'm exaggerating to make a point, sure, but the fact remains: Pouet is not a good place for beginners, and having BITS (and the ongoing debate about BITS, as Gargaj points out) front and center doesn't help. Still - your question is valid - "Where can the newcomers find good prods?" - on Pouet of course, but let's hope they stay clear of the BBS. Hopefully, some other landing-page for newcomers will see the light of day, or: Pouet gets a spring cleaning (which it sort of has already, at least in part).

Its even more ironic how many without freedom of speech will complain about people with freedom of speech.

just do a site for the new comers if it so damn important, but don't clean up (read: nuke) pouet:
bedtime for anarchy just doesn't sound right.

fartboner

zefyros: the newcomer site is in progress too - and hell i dont mind a portion of anarchy either, but there's a golden point from which on the site stops becoming functional and loses the relevance for the people who provide the content.

i dont want to stop people from posting nsfw stuff on the bbs, or even crappy textmode prods in the prod section, but i firmly believe there can be more to pouet, and if there's a tide, we have to turn it.

Gargaj: I agree, at some enough is enough. It's also true that pouet can be better place, no doubt about that.

*at some point
*a better place to be

gargaj&others: Why dont you just use bitfellas if you cant stand pouets anarchy?

why dont you create anarchy on mac.scene.org or scene.se if you cant stand the new hood? :)

there's a "tide" alright...a tide of whingers complaining about Pouet just for being Pouet. they want constraints and restrictions based on their personal expectations and (as usual with these types) they have no 100% defined ideas about what to "allow" and what not to allow ...it's all subjective crap.

Most of the complaining seems to be with regard to the free-form trolling on the BBS. So why not simply use scene.org's restricted and moderated forums? no ofcourse not.

gargaj, you will never please 'em and if you try you will just ruin what has made Pouet so successful. Sure, you can consider user customizable filters, threashholds, introducing certain database attributes for perhaps cleverly combining those for searches/troll filtering and such. but i think you have to be careful not to go too far or Pouet's uniqueness will be lost.

And so, my fellow demosceners, ask not what Pouët can do to facilitate your trolling - ask what your trolling can do to Pouët.