Crisis: Money As Debt
category: general [glöplog]
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no.
hello said: do you think the wealthy will have any say in this transition away from a money based system?
of course they will. In USA the wealthy are making the law - lobbying and such. And they are doing everything in their power now, during the crisis too. And I wouldn't say they are not getting what they want - the government gives money to the banks, not to the citizens =)
of course they will. In USA the wealthy are making the law - lobbying and such. And they are doing everything in their power now, during the crisis too. And I wouldn't say they are not getting what they want - the government gives money to the banks, not to the citizens =)
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Every one who studied economics knows banks creates money.
And everyone who didn't study economy has no clue. I can't comment on the validity of all of what the video says, or maybe a clever economist could explain how it's really not so bad, but to the extent that the world economy actually is this pyramid scheme, how is pointing that out to the unsuspecting victims ever "dull and boring"?
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Think about it, if anyone comes up with a way to light up bulbs using pee, then are we going to have war over the most oftenly urinating population on Earth?
No. That's silly.
To go deeper into the banking - monetary subject I recommend:
the documentations
- The Money Masters - watch it here
a 3+ hour long lecture on how the present monetary system in the US was built
and where it's "failures" are. That documentation was done in 1996(!) and predicted
the collapse (no, not the .com bubble but this thing now) that started in summer 2007.
- Firewall, In Defense Of A Nation State - by Lynden LaRouche
see search results
Although from a more nationalistic view it describes first the circumstances that led the
Weimar Republic into hyper inflation, hence paved the way for the fascists to take over.
Then focuses on the anglo-american banking system, the derivatives bubble and the detachement
of the financial- from real economy.
the book - The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin
which goes deep inside the build up of the Federal Reserve.
the documentations
- The Money Masters - watch it here
a 3+ hour long lecture on how the present monetary system in the US was built
and where it's "failures" are. That documentation was done in 1996(!) and predicted
the collapse (no, not the .com bubble but this thing now) that started in summer 2007.
- Firewall, In Defense Of A Nation State - by Lynden LaRouche
see search results
Although from a more nationalistic view it describes first the circumstances that led the
Weimar Republic into hyper inflation, hence paved the way for the fascists to take over.
Then focuses on the anglo-american banking system, the derivatives bubble and the detachement
of the financial- from real economy.
the book - The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin
which goes deep inside the build up of the Federal Reserve.
Things will start to get interesting when the Rothschild family start making real losses.
How can the guys that OWN the bloody place lose anything ?
They own both sides of the game...they'll collect the collaterals of those who will default.
That's the name of the game.
They don't HAVE all the money ... they MAKE all the money.
And the big problem of todays crisis is, that the financial derivatives have such a monetary value
attached to them, that there is no sufficient property whatsoever on the entire planet to back 'em up in
case of a default... so the whole scheme WILL default and the poor fellows whos loans was sold to
XYZ bank will have to hand over all of their humble possesions as collateral because the bank called
in the loan and poor fellow couldn't pay the interest.
And that's how the transfer of the real wealth (not bits & bytes on computer accounts) takes place.
They own both sides of the game...they'll collect the collaterals of those who will default.
That's the name of the game.
They don't HAVE all the money ... they MAKE all the money.
And the big problem of todays crisis is, that the financial derivatives have such a monetary value
attached to them, that there is no sufficient property whatsoever on the entire planet to back 'em up in
case of a default... so the whole scheme WILL default and the poor fellows whos loans was sold to
XYZ bank will have to hand over all of their humble possesions as collateral because the bank called
in the loan and poor fellow couldn't pay the interest.
And that's how the transfer of the real wealth (not bits & bytes on computer accounts) takes place.
Why do you guys find reciting first year economics fun, but ignore interesting speculation?
I find the best part of the movie how all religons called it sin to make money with money. When religion and communism agrees on something =)
Communism is in fact a form of religion.
"God" is thereby replaced by either the great leader (in case of Stalin and Castro) or by the mighty mighty state (e.g. the ruling party).
"God" is thereby replaced by either the great leader (in case of Stalin and Castro) or by the mighty mighty state (e.g. the ruling party).
And this precise ideal seems to be negotiable in both ideologies. If history is anything to go by.
with that kind of arguments, then everything is religion, money, girls, pouet.net, your shit.
boring
boring
Well the word religion does not by default mean organised religon as in church and other loony bins. It refers to any ultimate set of beliefs. If your primary belief was money, girls, pouet.net then those would in fact be your religion, as they are to many people.
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If we harvested 0.01% of the Sun's energy it might have some impact on the Earth's ecosystem but the vast majority of the Sun's energy is already just converted into heat as soon as the radiation hits the Earth's atmosphere and surface (especially in places like deserts where we'd most want to harvest solar energy), and energy doesn't just go away when we consume it, it still becomes heat in the end.
That's why I specified "in unnatural ways". It's not the same (for the planet) to convert the heat on single spare points... and obviously we can't fill the whole planet with solar converters and spread the heat so it affects everything as it does in the "natural" way.
It's a matter of balance... the earth (the universe actually) has some kind of "perfect balance" (call it god, call it whatever) that allows it to be like it is now... break that balance, and we'll all be fucked :-)
nytrik: before I saw this film I could not understand how national economics worked in a nutshell, no, I had no clue. but now thanks to the video I have a clue. if you have a better video for me to watch which is entertaining for someone with limited knowledge of the subject, be my guest.
What can _I_ do to change stuff? Nothing, but I feel happy I understand some.
What can _I_ do to change stuff? Nothing, but I feel happy I understand some.
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And the big problem of todays crisis is, that the financial derivatives have such a monetary value attached to them, that there is no sufficient property whatsoever on the entire planet to back 'em up in case of a default... so the whole scheme WILL default and the poor fellows whos loans was sold to XYZ bank will have to hand over all of their humble possesions as collateral because the bank called in the loan and poor fellow couldn't pay the interest.
And that's how the transfer of the real wealth (not bits & bytes on computer accounts) takes place.
...that's about what I was trying to say... :/
The first video is interesting. I wish he'd stop waving around his pen though.
@dubmood:
Please look up the meaning of "religion" and you'll see it's just another terminology for a dictatorship.
Ofcourse everything can be turned into a religious structure.
Isn't money some sort of "god" for a group of - quite ignorant - people ?
And on another fact, you do not seem to be capable of any decent debate, hence calling it boring.
If it's so boring why did you participate in the first place?
that's where the Fibunacci series steps in :)
Please look up the meaning of "religion" and you'll see it's just another terminology for a dictatorship.
Ofcourse everything can be turned into a religious structure.
Isn't money some sort of "god" for a group of - quite ignorant - people ?
And on another fact, you do not seem to be capable of any decent debate, hence calling it boring.
If it's so boring why did you participate in the first place?
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It's a matter of balance...
that's where the Fibunacci series steps in :)
was still a very boring argument. same level as "communism would never work in reality" If I would want thoose kinds of discussions I would go back to highschool.
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It's not the same (for the planet) to convert the heat on single spare points...
But it is. The net heat added to the Earth and the atmosphere is exactly the same. Whether you let the Sun heat some desert by X watts, or you collect solar energy there and instead heat the atmosphere in nearby cities by exactly X watts shortly afterwards, doesn't make any difference. Within a matter of days all that heat is diffused in exactly the same way anyway.
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the earth (the universe actually) has some kind of "perfect balance"
No, there's no basis for thinking that.
Earth has had some fucked up climates in the past, like most of the atmosphere literally burning after meteor impacts, ice ages, volcanic eruptions, etc., and the ecosystem recovers every time to a state where the Earth is crawling with life.
It's rather if we don't find ways to tap more directly into the Sun's energy that we're fucked.
@dubmood:
well, I saw "communism" - at least that form "they" tried - named socialism, collapse.
Live on the street as I'm a so called "east german", born and grown up in GDR.
I pretty much know what form of communism you're thinking of - I've got some nice sci-fi novels about it lying around at home.
But that utopic form (so heavily advertised in the latest "Zeitgeist" movie) we're talking about
requires quite an "ascension" by mankind as a whole.
The crux of the matter is, that such an ascension would/will take millenia the natural way and otherwise, enforced by -say- "enlightend" leaders, it would turn out as yet another form of dictatorship and will end up in eugenics...point blank...you know..."to make a better human" .... I heared that before o_O
not that I intend to invoke a Godwin here :)
The topic, however, was about the monetary system.
well, I saw "communism" - at least that form "they" tried - named socialism, collapse.
Live on the street as I'm a so called "east german", born and grown up in GDR.
I pretty much know what form of communism you're thinking of - I've got some nice sci-fi novels about it lying around at home.
But that utopic form (so heavily advertised in the latest "Zeitgeist" movie) we're talking about
requires quite an "ascension" by mankind as a whole.
The crux of the matter is, that such an ascension would/will take millenia the natural way and otherwise, enforced by -say- "enlightend" leaders, it would turn out as yet another form of dictatorship and will end up in eugenics...point blank...you know..."to make a better human" .... I heared that before o_O
not that I intend to invoke a Godwin here :)
The topic, however, was about the monetary system.
I see capitalism, atleast the form "they" try, collapse. But hey lets go for more cliches. You and I know what the DDR was and why it collapsed. But why dont you tell us the -if you aint socialist when you are young- blabla, you will feel so satisfied with yoursef once again ignoring your complete idiocy and ignorance when discussing this topic.
shiet.
boring, as hell, bye!
shiet.
boring, as hell, bye!
yeah - dubmood really bringing something interesting to this discussion... Sigh. Moron.
get some weed dude
...he didn't get it, did he?
ok well lets keep it on your level
Capitalism would work if everyone just stuck to the plan! Too bad people dont. So it dont work.
topic closed.
Lets talk about football! oh and I dont smoke, and Puryx, I dont see you bringing anything at all to this discussion exept for "Moron", so what do you want? Moron!
Capitalism would work if everyone just stuck to the plan! Too bad people dont. So it dont work.
topic closed.
Lets talk about football! oh and I dont smoke, and Puryx, I dont see you bringing anything at all to this discussion exept for "Moron", so what do you want? Moron!
Just watching day 2 of bank bosses get a roasting by the treasury select comittee on Sky news. All smoke and mirrors.