poll: dx10 or good old 9 ?
category: general [glöplog]
switched to Linux & OpenGL one year ago.
chaos, about the geometry shader performance, i just had a look into the ATI r600 and r700 register specifications, and it gives interresting hints. each type of shaders can run on a parametrable amount of threads.. there is no reason why geometry shaders couldnt use as much more shader units than VS or PS in fact. so if the performance is crap with gs on these cards it must be a driver limitation.
chad: the answer is in the last sentence when read carefully. Besides, a pc demo is expected to run on a common pc while a wild is not
TS: a common pc nowadays runs vista
TS: since when did a PC demo need to run on a common PC (and what is a "common PC" anyway?)? I seem to remember there being this little thing called "compo rules" that define what you are allowed and not to participate with in a given compo.
I'd like TS to define "common". I'd also like to point out that just because some random PC with Vista is being bought by Joe Schmoe at the local supermarket, it is in no way representative for what PCs demosceners have. :)
glad i don't have to toot my saxington no mo
Assembly 08 compo rules stated clearly that DX10 was allowed.
gloom: I clearly dissagree on that. Joe Schmoe is a demoscener.
The 'common pc' has an intel video card too, good luck getting people to support that.
well, dx10 does it easier to support, because it actually requires features, contra dx9 where you have to check manually!
anyhow, this discussion is about dx9 vs dx10. I clearly understand why people dont want to install vista, but that doesn't change the fact that dx10 is better to develop with. And I dont think the majority of the audience is using XP, thats dervied from a huge asset of empirical data!
anyhow, this discussion is about dx9 vs dx10. I clearly understand why people dont want to install vista, but that doesn't change the fact that dx10 is better to develop with. And I dont think the majority of the audience is using XP, thats dervied from a huge asset of empirical data!
quisten: what empirical data? If majority of the audience doesn't use Xp, so what does it use? Take a look at the Steam survey.
aizen: Since when was steam data comparable to the demoscene?
kusmabite: operating system/gfx hardware class distribution seem to be similar(most people have DX9 capable cards and Xp)
So your impression is that they are comparable, therefore we shall trust that the data? Well, my impression is that they are not comparable. I believe there are a lot more 12 year olds using their daddys old PC on Steam than there are in the demoscene.
I'm not saying that WinXP and DX9 isn't the most commonly used config; that was quisten's claim and not mine. I'm just not buying your argument about using the Steam survey as a reference for the demoscene.
I'm not saying that WinXP and DX9 isn't the most commonly used config; that was quisten's claim and not mine. I'm just not buying your argument about using the Steam survey as a reference for the demoscene.
Quisten: just pointing out that the 'average pc' argument is a bit pointless, unless you know what an 'average scener pc' is.
About dx9/10, I don't really care.. I don't write for windows, so that side doesn't matter. For watching: I have xp, and no intention of installing vista, so I can't watch dx10 stuff. I'd love to see what people do with it though, so I won't hold it against anyone using it.
Anyway, even if somebody writes for the very latest and most high end stuff, so what if few people can watch it? People will see it at the party, and in a year or two most people will have the hardware to run it realtime. Just needs a bit of patience, and in return we can do really cool stuff :)
About dx9/10, I don't really care.. I don't write for windows, so that side doesn't matter. For watching: I have xp, and no intention of installing vista, so I can't watch dx10 stuff. I'd love to see what people do with it though, so I won't hold it against anyone using it.
Anyway, even if somebody writes for the very latest and most high end stuff, so what if few people can watch it? People will see it at the party, and in a year or two most people will have the hardware to run it realtime. Just needs a bit of patience, and in return we can do really cool stuff :)
And you're probably right. I used steam example, because it shows current statistical distribution of hardware for consumer-level computers used for graphics. I didn't take into consideration, that demoscene is very special group :P
As for Vista vs Xp debate, well, in the end most of us will use Vista or 7:
As for Vista vs Xp debate, well, in the end most of us will use Vista or 7:
psonice: I don't care enough to discuss the 'average' or stuff in that direction.
I do however salute your last point.
I do however salute your last point.
steam? isn´t that the gamer crap? regarding the amount of flashy lightshows claimed as being computers I doubt they´re of any worth then judging a typical scener´s machine (which might use from a p1 class win98 with a v3 card up to a dual quadcore multi-gpu config, but in most cases not dx10 - quess why)
Regarding development: There is plenty of stuff which would be cool to develop for, but if you want to have an audience beeing able to run it you´ll need to ditch most of them
Regarding development: There is plenty of stuff which would be cool to develop for, but if you want to have an audience beeing able to run it you´ll need to ditch most of them
quisten: I completely agree, I too prefer watching live demos over videos. Still DX10 cannot be overlooked, because it provides some really neat things, especially useful in size-constrained categories.
Vista is another history. As some kind of mini-daily-WTF: I installed it on my computer yesterday, and despite quite powerfull configuration(Quad-core CPU + 4Gb RAM) Adobe Photoshop CS3 is unusable(even the simplest operations, like moving some element are laggy). This operating system must be seriously fucked inside.
Vista is another history. As some kind of mini-daily-WTF: I installed it on my computer yesterday, and despite quite powerfull configuration(Quad-core CPU + 4Gb RAM) Adobe Photoshop CS3 is unusable(even the simplest operations, like moving some element are laggy). This operating system must be seriously fucked inside.
One more think:
Every 2/3 years you will have the same debate about this: DX(i-1) or DX(i).
And the obvious "you need to install dxiAAA.dll to see this demo".
Well. Make your choice and loose your time as dirct your needs.
Every 2/3 years you will have the same debate about this: DX(i-1) or DX(i).
And the obvious "you need to install dxiAAA.dll to see this demo".
Well. Make your choice and loose your time as dirct your needs.
aizen: it works just fine for me.
kusmabite: on Windows 7(installed 3h ago) it starts 2x faster than on Xp :D. I'm almost sure, that Vista slowdown is some minor problem, which occured on my hardware/software configuration.
DX7?
knl has leading.
