pouët.net

for me, a demo that runs on more than one type of videocard is a technical achievement :)

animation = wild
demo = demo
effects = new inventions
graphics = pixel-gfx ;)
soundtrack = music
direction = what steven spielberg does for films
original concept = mustn´t be what direction is...its about the theme of a demo
breaktrough = best newcomers performance!

who´s dumb now?

A good thing that the Scene.org Awards are for the scene then. :)

graphics are not for 4k procedural gfx ?
direction.concept.effect...
nothing for 3dmodellers ?
a coder can reach all these categories except soundtrack, fine.

animation = wild = So hyperscheisse goes into this category as well?

effects = new inventions = Why new? .. as long as it looks sweet as hell all the way through a demo/intro ?

graphics = pixel-gfx ;) = something that hasn't been coded imo. (hbc and especially junk takes the cake here)

why, because it's reasonably small? i think its a great example of the ability of a brilliant artist to use a given toolset. the tech achievement award would have been for fr08, with its innovative texture generator and softsynth.

i like the idea of a "technical achievement" award so the category covers something more than hypnoglow - but i shudder at what the jury would make of it. just awarding it to sizecoding productions misses the point, though.

I thought an "effect" involves some degree deception and trickery used to achieve something that looks advanced but is actually just smoke and mirrors and look-up tables, whereas a "technical achievement" seems more honest somehow, awarded for things that really are advanced, like building your own hardware or producing a realistic physics model.

In other words: effects are magic, technical achievements are science.

but trying to separate the magic from the science is a task in itself. e.g. was that realistic physics model you mention the result of carefully developing a new solver, or was it all baked out in maya?

Smash: Since the scene.org awards is decided by a jury (hopefully consisting of experts?) the category "best effect" should be in no danger to be handed out to someone making "hypnoglow". Right?

the issue is correlated to the inner definition of a demo, an inextricable mix of arts and specific techniques, whereas all scene.org categories emphasize the artistic side of demos, in so far as the jury probably takes account of both but a technical prod without any artistic value would hardly get any award.

so maybe a "technical achievement" award in addition of "best effet" wouldn't be bad to counterbalance other awards.

besides "most original concept" is purely artistic, so "technical achievement" would be its perfect counterpart.

Smash: Proving it's realtime is the job of the developer, and that goes beyond stamping 'NO PRECALC!' on top of it. If what you're presenting is really a technical achievement with no fakery, you'd go all out prove beyond any doubt that it's the real deal.

With modern accelerated PC demos I find it much harder to pick out what is an effect and what's just design. I guess the fact that hardware is so diverse has concentrated efforts on pushing art and design boundaries more than technical ones, and the scene.org awards recognise this.

also where do you put iq's stunning 4k gfx and sizecoding ? in best effects ? scene.org awards seem to miss some new demoscene aspects.

Let's take a wild guess then... how about in the 4k category ?

ok then the definition of the "best 4k intro" award should clearly state that it also includes procedural graphics.

Just chiming in with my annual "I hate the concecpt of scene.org-awards, and believe it's just another forum for the germish conspiracy."

I preferred the viewing tips to the awards since they were much more flexible. If we have to have an 'academy awards' system then they should have looked at what kind of work goes into producing a demo rather than what comes out in the final product. Tailor the awards to common disciplines, e.g.

Code
2D graphics
3D graphics
Direction
Music/Audio

And maybe Best Alternative Demo for Wild demos.

- Best demo
Edge of Disgrace

- Best demo on an oldschool platform
Edge of Disgrace

- Best effects
Edge of Disgrace

- Best graphics
Edge of Disgrace

- Best soundtrack
Edge of Disgrace

- Best direction
Edge of Disgrace

- best party
X2008

as I understood it so far "best effect" was not about coding skills or quality, but the overall beauty, amount of innovative or experience of a given part of a demo (otherwise, if was about code ... I think Fairlight and ukallstart demos should have just won it all by far- at least among pc competitors).

(or perhaps some 4k intros too, they usually bring some interesting new techniques)

the problem is that even most sceners do not realize about technical/code/algorithmic achievements in demos, it's hard to "see" the techniques behind unless you have a very trained eye. Like, I believe, most coders cannot see why Into The Pink is far more technically impressive than Final Audition, or why Failing Down is, as ITP, far superior to any other demo so done far. But probably I'm just being too "rendering techniques freak" here...

Be kind and explain to a retarded coder why you feel this way about these demos. I'm interested.

You shouldn't underestimate "most coders" like that, iq. The problem is that everyone has his own opinion about what constitutes an effect. Naturally you knew this. My opinion, for example, differs from yours in that as much as I understand how much work that goes into doing things correctly and by the book, I much more value a "visual effect" if it naturally belongs to the demoscene (he said, invoking yet another ill-defined term;)) - i.e. if it is a realtime, non-interactive trickery of some kind. One of the reasons I like this more is the very same reason I like to do demos; it gives me a break from academics. If demomaking is turning into structuring your code, writing proofs that your algorithms converges and going to conferences giving talks about it afterwards, I could just have well have stayed at work an extra hour every day. :)

But again, this is an award handed out by a group of people that represents nobody but themselves, so there's really no reason to take it any more serious than it is.

oops, I made a bad choice of words/expressions, sorry. It's not about being retarded. It's just that as more and more knowledge is developed inside and outside the demoscene it's just impossible for the non specialists to follow. I think even specialists themselves have troubles to keep track of everything.

Again, my opinion might be quite biased towards rendering techniques (my hobby), I actually have little idea about physics, collision detection or fluid simulation. But well, rendering wise, Smash has successfully implemented some "difficult" techniques and combined then beautifully. 2D velocity based motion blur, screen space ambient occlusion, all sort of shadow maps, and many others I cannot even spot. Plastic too has dome some impressive work imho. Other demos, impressive as they can be size-wise or design/creativity wise, are in another league I'm sorry.

Of course I guess I'm being very narrow minded here (can you say that in english?). I know there are many demos that have amazingly cool code behind and creative algorithms (those that you don't find in the papers) and those do merit recognition too. But well, I bet whatever that plastic and flt guys needed great doses of creativity and imagination to bring the papers to life and seamesly integrate them with the rest of the demo.

Anyway, don't take my words/analysis too seriously, I think I just had a bad day, and well. All demos are cool, I just wanted to play a bit in the arguments.

hyde (I wrote before reading your post), yep, as said for me the "best effect" was not about implementing the best technique, that's perhaps for that "tech achievement" concept they spoke about.

Anyway, I recognize that myself I have to clue about C64 coding for example and that's why I never comment on those prods, whatever excited people gets about them. Nothing wrong, I mean, we not all know about everything.

But yes, I most probably abused of that unfortunate "most" in my sentence, I have no clue what people really knows. I was basing my feelings on what I read sometimes in pouet (I still remember that one where Crysis was criticized for being a mere nicely textured model viewer.. ehem). But yes, I know, pouet != demoscene.

Ok, I go back to my cave and shut up.