the cracktro dilemma
category: general [glöplog]
ok let's clear it up once and for all, please :p
first i'm not in cahoots with the groups releasing cracktros lately, like titan, electric druggies, unleashed or skidrow... so i speak for myself, independently (that means : flame me for my words but not those groups ;)
i say cracktro but i'm talking more generally of intro whose main purpose is (don't forget the obvious...) to be a proud digital graffiti tag, to show a group name and some more or less useful information, usually through a graf'ed logo and a scroller, supported by some supposedly enjoyable effects and tune.
because of that rigid format most cracktros do stick to oldschool design and therefore are often criticized by grumpy veterans who pretend to be the only ones to know what good oldschool is and what is not, as if youngsters hadn't the right to feel what those felt in their green years...
however they are somewhat right, intro design could be way improved and show some massive innovation and quality, hitch proved it a few years ago :)
so... what are your main reproaches and progressive ideas about that particular issue, how to spice up the cracktro competition, how to finally reconcile intros and the demoscene ?
first i'm not in cahoots with the groups releasing cracktros lately, like titan, electric druggies, unleashed or skidrow... so i speak for myself, independently (that means : flame me for my words but not those groups ;)
i say cracktro but i'm talking more generally of intro whose main purpose is (don't forget the obvious...) to be a proud digital graffiti tag, to show a group name and some more or less useful information, usually through a graf'ed logo and a scroller, supported by some supposedly enjoyable effects and tune.
because of that rigid format most cracktros do stick to oldschool design and therefore are often criticized by grumpy veterans who pretend to be the only ones to know what good oldschool is and what is not, as if youngsters hadn't the right to feel what those felt in their green years...
however they are somewhat right, intro design could be way improved and show some massive innovation and quality, hitch proved it a few years ago :)
so... what are your main reproaches and progressive ideas about that particular issue, how to spice up the cracktro competition, how to finally reconcile intros and the demoscene ?
One idea would be to stop releasing crap that look and run worse than intros did 20 years ago. Nothing wrong with oldschool-design if it's done properly, but at least try to show some improvement from what people did ages ago :)
tl;dr
A good cracktro should be aesthetically pleasing and have a good tune. It's as simple as that.
I'm not a veteran but I still criticize many of the recent cracktros because they fail in one or the other or, usually, both. Not because I claim to be the only one that knows what "good oldschool" is or because I wanna deny a right to.. dunno even what you're trying to say there.
I'm not a veteran but I still criticize many of the recent cracktros because they fail in one or the other or, usually, both. Not because I claim to be the only one that knows what "good oldschool" is or because I wanna deny a right to.. dunno even what you're trying to say there.
Cracktro's haven't mattered for the past decade and will never matter again in the future. jsyk.
what about more one-effect 30s intro compo at parties or more cool intros for the final versions of huge demos ? :)
okkie: seriously, that is not my opinion and analysis at all. I hate that "when i'm gone, i don't care what happens" attitude :p
(and cracktros are probably way more watched than most demos...)
(and cracktros are probably way more watched than most demos...)
A single screen 30s intro compo could be a fun idea. Sort of similar to the 4k proc gfx compo where people can make something "acceptable" without having to spend all the time a real demo requires on this retarded hobby.
What Britelite said. If you care about the opinion of the majority, don't make stuff that looks like crap and runs like crap.
The stuff you masturbate over as "oldskool design" was usually the cutting edge back when it was first released. That's why people enjoyed those intros back then and remember them today. There are still some people creating crack intros etc that look good by today's standards, and those (if any) are the ones that'll be cared about 15 years from now. Not laughably bad attempts at remaking yesterday's design.
Furthermore, as has been stated dozens of times: there is no point in debating over what's "oldskool" as there are several definitions of "oldskool" that contradict eachother. Go back to your "skool" and pay attention in class before starting more of these pointless threads.
The stuff you masturbate over as "oldskool design" was usually the cutting edge back when it was first released. That's why people enjoyed those intros back then and remember them today. There are still some people creating crack intros etc that look good by today's standards, and those (if any) are the ones that'll be cared about 15 years from now. Not laughably bad attempts at remaking yesterday's design.
Furthermore, as has been stated dozens of times: there is no point in debating over what's "oldskool" as there are several definitions of "oldskool" that contradict eachother. Go back to your "skool" and pay attention in class before starting more of these pointless threads.
zest: it's quality, not oldschool that tends to be the problem. Too many recent cracktros are simply crap, and like britelite said, stuff made 20 years ago by some kids that were learning to code on a computer 100x less powerful looks a load better.
Check out some of the decent 'oldschool' stuff like the pc equinox intros for a bit of comparison.
Check out some of the decent 'oldschool' stuff like the pc equinox intros for a bit of comparison.
Bullshit.
There were plenty of simple cracktros released in the 1990's that had really simple design but still rocked.
It doesnt have to be cutting edge to be cool. You of all people should know that.
There were plenty of simple cracktros released in the 1990's that had really simple design but still rocked.
It doesnt have to be cutting edge to be cool. You of all people should know that.
nothing against cracktros at all, but they should run like a charm on the target platform, if stargazer or similiar doesn´t run on my old crappy amd xp2600 1gb ram gf6200 it is ok for me, but a simple scroller and starfield should´nt be a problem for that config. and its possible to make oldschool in a good way, check hitch´s or keops stuff ,btw this stuff runs like a charm on my crappy config. :D
Premium, ythe last paradise amiga production ran like shit on an a500 when it wasnt even doing anything so shut up already ok?
Simplicity is not the same as slow and ugly, you should know that.
Most "recent" PC cracktros of the past 10 years ignore the presence of a mouse and don't quit on LMB. That's why they suck.
Quote:
A good cracktro should be aesthetically pleasing and have a good tune. It's as simple as that.
i also think that intros could be more 'useful' in the way of being integrated into the waiting process for the real deal, like those installtros in late 90s and early 00s rip releases.
some democoders actually make some wonderful animated loading bars (sometimes even with sfx and tune) which are nothing more/less than cool intros :)
some democoders actually make some wonderful animated loading bars (sometimes even with sfx and tune) which are nothing more/less than cool intros :)
A good cracktro should display a message about who was responsible for cracking the software. It's as simple as that. :-) Nowadays nobody cares about cracktros anyway, so they dont need to be "aesthetically pleasing", except they are uploaded here.
I don't care much. Ok, cracktros have 2d scrollers and rasters. Do it in software. Or make some accelerated cracktro with more than old things that could be done in software rendering or something. Weren't there 1-2 cracktros that were big like a demo with great 3d transitions from some scener I don't remember his nick? Ok, of course cracktros are not like demos, for demos you spend your effort on it, for cracktros you just want to show something in addition to the crack, to praise yourself for the crack, or there are 0dayz warez and you have to release the damn thing even if it's not state of the art (are there 0dayz warez todayz?)
Actually I wanted to say again something else. You know that but I want people to listen.
* Crackers ARE NOT the bad/evil hackers or script kiddies
* Hackers ARE what I call now neohackers
* We sceners, hardcore coders, computer enthousiasts ARE NOT called today hackers (but it has a good value and if someone uses it to mean the old original meaning I will understand and be ok with it)
Also something interesting to me about three mentalities:
* The (neo)hacker - Much value in coolness(my ass), the least programming knowledge required. 98% coolness / 2% soul
* The cracker (our cracker) - Still some annoying "coolness" or leetness (I have met 2 people into cracking they had some kind of 1337 air in them and almost ignored me or snobbed me when I said I am a demoscener) but at least they knew what a dissasembler is. There is some kind of programming work, they are some value. 70% coolness / 30% knowledge
* The scener (we) - Coolness is always there, we are like rockstars who think we are something but at least we are more. In every community afteralls, one motivation for some is self-esteem to be known and kick ass the other demogroups, etc, etc. It's in every community. The difference is that the road is high. The focus of demoscene is to code/pixel/track/design a friggin demo. You can't just rip someone's code and make something. No sense in that and you will be kick your ass. In cracking you fiddle with some opcodes there, change something and voila. Then proud make the cracktro and say you are leeet. At least you have a purpose, you programm something, you do something. In hacking (as what I call neohacking and people wrongly call cracking) most cases you find some password in someone's desk or with fraud or with blank passwords or.. it doesn't evolve much creativity and even annoy people on the net and do stupid pranks. This is shit!!!
It's like a scener walks several miles, climbs mountains, etc to reach goal
The cracker has to walk, does some work to fix a broken motorcycle and goes allong the way.
The (neo)hacker? Just bumbs into someone else's car secretly, which drives to someone's home, fucks his home, kills the driver and thinks he is the most clever guy in the world!
Another analogy.
* The programmer is a scientist who also happens to be engaged into lock picking as a hobby because it's a tricky thing (like Feynman for example)
* The cracker, is into lock picking. He breaks into some home. Maybe steals some food to eat or sell.
* The (neo)hacker, most of the times cannot even bother to lockpick, but slams the door with his foot, writes messages on walls with spray inside the home, sometimes beats the owners and steal stuff, and then he even things he is a scientist because he is into it as Feynman.
Ahhh,. I said it again!!!
War to neohackers!!!!!!!
Crackers are respected!
Demoscene is the best!
Actually I wanted to say again something else. You know that but I want people to listen.
* Crackers ARE NOT the bad/evil hackers or script kiddies
* Hackers ARE what I call now neohackers
* We sceners, hardcore coders, computer enthousiasts ARE NOT called today hackers (but it has a good value and if someone uses it to mean the old original meaning I will understand and be ok with it)
Also something interesting to me about three mentalities:
* The (neo)hacker - Much value in coolness(my ass), the least programming knowledge required. 98% coolness / 2% soul
* The cracker (our cracker) - Still some annoying "coolness" or leetness (I have met 2 people into cracking they had some kind of 1337 air in them and almost ignored me or snobbed me when I said I am a demoscener) but at least they knew what a dissasembler is. There is some kind of programming work, they are some value. 70% coolness / 30% knowledge
* The scener (we) - Coolness is always there, we are like rockstars who think we are something but at least we are more. In every community afteralls, one motivation for some is self-esteem to be known and kick ass the other demogroups, etc, etc. It's in every community. The difference is that the road is high. The focus of demoscene is to code/pixel/track/design a friggin demo. You can't just rip someone's code and make something. No sense in that and you will be kick your ass. In cracking you fiddle with some opcodes there, change something and voila. Then proud make the cracktro and say you are leeet. At least you have a purpose, you programm something, you do something. In hacking (as what I call neohacking and people wrongly call cracking) most cases you find some password in someone's desk or with fraud or with blank passwords or.. it doesn't evolve much creativity and even annoy people on the net and do stupid pranks. This is shit!!!
It's like a scener walks several miles, climbs mountains, etc to reach goal
The cracker has to walk, does some work to fix a broken motorcycle and goes allong the way.
The (neo)hacker? Just bumbs into someone else's car secretly, which drives to someone's home, fucks his home, kills the driver and thinks he is the most clever guy in the world!
Another analogy.
* The programmer is a scientist who also happens to be engaged into lock picking as a hobby because it's a tricky thing (like Feynman for example)
* The cracker, is into lock picking. He breaks into some home. Maybe steals some food to eat or sell.
* The (neo)hacker, most of the times cannot even bother to lockpick, but slams the door with his foot, writes messages on walls with spray inside the home, sometimes beats the owners and steal stuff, and then he even things he is a scientist because he is into it as Feynman.
Ahhh,. I said it again!!!
War to neohackers!!!!!!!
Crackers are respected!
Demoscene is the best!
rule of the thumb: a good cracktro is one that has hitchhikr in the credits.
Ok, sorry I will write a blog post about it soon. And yes it was the hitchhikr's cracktros I remember. They were more like demos though :)
I hereby give Optimus' post 5 stars.
*****
*****
Cracktros ostensibly still have a purpose, if only tangentially and artifactually, so if they fulfill that purpose by accompanying a cracked game and displaying the group's pseudonyms and tags, then the mission's a success. Why should people who make cracktros give a tuppeny fuck what pouet thinks? You may as well do critical reviews of the opening credits on The A-Team.
My point is that if you write a real cracktro (by which I mean it has a semi-legitimate purpose as described above), you're not looking for a fucking thumbs-up on a website. If you are, then you're probably in the wrong business and should start making pretentious demos instead.
And why do people actually ask for the sweeping opinions of pouet users? Is it purely masochistic, or what? If I wanted sure-fire disagreement from a load of people whose opinions I didn't respect, I could go into the pub on a match day and shout "all football fans are repressed gaylords".
But yeah, PC cracktros generally suck - for most of the reasons given above, but also because they invariably twat up your window positions on a multimonitor display.
My point is that if you write a real cracktro (by which I mean it has a semi-legitimate purpose as described above), you're not looking for a fucking thumbs-up on a website. If you are, then you're probably in the wrong business and should start making pretentious demos instead.
And why do people actually ask for the sweeping opinions of pouet users? Is it purely masochistic, or what? If I wanted sure-fire disagreement from a load of people whose opinions I didn't respect, I could go into the pub on a match day and shout "all football fans are repressed gaylords".
But yeah, PC cracktros generally suck - for most of the reasons given above, but also because they invariably twat up your window positions on a multimonitor display.
Quote:
Why should people who make cracktros give a tuppeny fuck what pouet thinks? You may as well do critical reviews of the opening credits on The A-Team.
The answer is that they don't ;-) and the people who make the intros are not the ones who are uploading them.
alpha1: are you serious ? (specially you ?)
i've always naively thought that cracktros are a gateway to the demoscene, to the scene spirit, a way to make the young masses aware of something cool, creative, friendly(?), elite and artistic (cracking is an art!) instead of stupid mass consuming and pirating ;)
i've always naively thought that cracktros are a gateway to the demoscene, to the scene spirit, a way to make the young masses aware of something cool, creative, friendly(?), elite and artistic (cracking is an art!) instead of stupid mass consuming and pirating ;)