NVScene 2008!
category: general [glöplog]
then again, considering i'm not on the list, it's easy for me to say :)
It really annoys me that so many of your are dissing nvidia for doing this.
You complain that nvidia are ruining the scene, but really, I think that it is you who is ruining it by spreading this bad, nonproductive atmosphere.
Ofcourse nvidia has some business thoughts about doing this.
And no, I do not think about "getting a bunch of cool productions for the price of a few computers". This event is a huge investment from nvidia, and I sincerely respect nvidia for doing this.
No, I think that nvidia has an honest interest in kickstarting the US demoscene.
After all, european it-companies are getting employees from the scene. Some companies are simply started by a bunch of scener. Ofcourse nvidia would like the same thing to happen for themselves and other US companies.
Of course - admitted - they also prefer that demos are nvidia optimized rather than ati optimized. I still really cannot blame nvidia for this.
I know that many sceners (yours truly included) prefer submitting entries to parties that they can attend. The motivating factor for most of us, after all, is seeing our stuff on the big screen, experiencing the reactions from the crowd in real time when our stuff is shown for the first time in public. At least, this is how I feel. If nvidia had not taken the approach of handing out something in advance, I am afraid that most european sceners would not submit anything to nv-scene. "That is too far away, and after all, it is about getting the US scene kickstarted, right?"
But now, in contrast, I hear several people actually talking about going to nv-scene - and I am also tempted. And even more people are talking about submitting entries. And no, this is not just "because they get hardware for free". Please, try and do the math. How much money is the demoboxes worth, how much time does it take to make a kickass demo (summing up hours for all people involved, that is). What is the "salary" per hour - measured in demoboxes. The result should be quite clear: No people are not doing it to get free hardware.
The motivating factor is of a different kind. The feeling that someone are really appreciating what you are doing. A bit like a crowd factor by proxy. Over there there are people who really wan't us to be doing this. And they are willing to send some stuff in return for doing it.
Personally I did not request for a demobox. I was the lucky one who got to keep the quadro 5600 that we (4 persons) won at breakpoint, and that is more than enough to get me motivated. But even so - even though I have not applied for a demoboc - the willingness from nvidia to kickstart this is even more making me want to make this a succes.
But, but, but. With this said. I also see a huge problem in the lack of information. "Is this going to happen at all, have they forgotten about us?" And no, as several as the orgas have suggested, this is not about "We wanna get our free stuff and fuck you!" It is just about getting some reassuring that you still wanna do this. Not knowing is very demotivating. After all you have a list with email-adresses from all the sceners having applied for a demobox. Sending out a short infomail every fortnight - just with the info that you have not forgotten and that you are doing the best you can - would do a huge difference, I think. I don't think that you realize how little we know of what is going on. I can imagine how much time you are putting into this, but I do not think that you realize that noone of us really know anything about it.
And as some of you say: "You have just submitted a form, you cannot really demand anything in return". Well, that is true. But really. Not knowing whether you are going to get a new computer or not is not wery conforting. Now, in this thread, you say that you are doing the best you can. And it reassures me - and, I guess, several others. But, really, the info had been so low that nobody really knew whether they were going to get their boxes or not. We did not for sure know that you were working your asses off, and what you do not know you cannot appreciate.
For instance, Blueberrys computer is as good as broken down. Normally he would buy a new computer, but that seems a bit stupid when you are about to get a demobox. He can easily live with his old laptop for a few months, that is not it. But actually not knowing whether people are working to get you a new computer, or whether you should just go and buy one yourself would be very reassuring. And it would make it easier to live with your backup computer while waiting. Now, blueberry is not the type who gets frustrated easily. And, indeed, he seems very unfrustrated when I am talking to him :-) . But I could imagine others (yours truly included) who would not take it so well. It is not just about getting stuff for free - it is also about planning your own life and investments.
And now, lets go and hijack some american sceners, should we not? :-)
You complain that nvidia are ruining the scene, but really, I think that it is you who is ruining it by spreading this bad, nonproductive atmosphere.
Ofcourse nvidia has some business thoughts about doing this.
And no, I do not think about "getting a bunch of cool productions for the price of a few computers". This event is a huge investment from nvidia, and I sincerely respect nvidia for doing this.
No, I think that nvidia has an honest interest in kickstarting the US demoscene.
After all, european it-companies are getting employees from the scene. Some companies are simply started by a bunch of scener. Ofcourse nvidia would like the same thing to happen for themselves and other US companies.
Of course - admitted - they also prefer that demos are nvidia optimized rather than ati optimized. I still really cannot blame nvidia for this.
I know that many sceners (yours truly included) prefer submitting entries to parties that they can attend. The motivating factor for most of us, after all, is seeing our stuff on the big screen, experiencing the reactions from the crowd in real time when our stuff is shown for the first time in public. At least, this is how I feel. If nvidia had not taken the approach of handing out something in advance, I am afraid that most european sceners would not submit anything to nv-scene. "That is too far away, and after all, it is about getting the US scene kickstarted, right?"
But now, in contrast, I hear several people actually talking about going to nv-scene - and I am also tempted. And even more people are talking about submitting entries. And no, this is not just "because they get hardware for free". Please, try and do the math. How much money is the demoboxes worth, how much time does it take to make a kickass demo (summing up hours for all people involved, that is). What is the "salary" per hour - measured in demoboxes. The result should be quite clear: No people are not doing it to get free hardware.
The motivating factor is of a different kind. The feeling that someone are really appreciating what you are doing. A bit like a crowd factor by proxy. Over there there are people who really wan't us to be doing this. And they are willing to send some stuff in return for doing it.
Personally I did not request for a demobox. I was the lucky one who got to keep the quadro 5600 that we (4 persons) won at breakpoint, and that is more than enough to get me motivated. But even so - even though I have not applied for a demoboc - the willingness from nvidia to kickstart this is even more making me want to make this a succes.
But, but, but. With this said. I also see a huge problem in the lack of information. "Is this going to happen at all, have they forgotten about us?" And no, as several as the orgas have suggested, this is not about "We wanna get our free stuff and fuck you!" It is just about getting some reassuring that you still wanna do this. Not knowing is very demotivating. After all you have a list with email-adresses from all the sceners having applied for a demobox. Sending out a short infomail every fortnight - just with the info that you have not forgotten and that you are doing the best you can - would do a huge difference, I think. I don't think that you realize how little we know of what is going on. I can imagine how much time you are putting into this, but I do not think that you realize that noone of us really know anything about it.
And as some of you say: "You have just submitted a form, you cannot really demand anything in return". Well, that is true. But really. Not knowing whether you are going to get a new computer or not is not wery conforting. Now, in this thread, you say that you are doing the best you can. And it reassures me - and, I guess, several others. But, really, the info had been so low that nobody really knew whether they were going to get their boxes or not. We did not for sure know that you were working your asses off, and what you do not know you cannot appreciate.
For instance, Blueberrys computer is as good as broken down. Normally he would buy a new computer, but that seems a bit stupid when you are about to get a demobox. He can easily live with his old laptop for a few months, that is not it. But actually not knowing whether people are working to get you a new computer, or whether you should just go and buy one yourself would be very reassuring. And it would make it easier to live with your backup computer while waiting. Now, blueberry is not the type who gets frustrated easily. And, indeed, he seems very unfrustrated when I am talking to him :-) . But I could imagine others (yours truly included) who would not take it so well. It is not just about getting stuff for free - it is also about planning your own life and investments.
And now, lets go and hijack some american sceners, should we not? :-)
Quote:
lemmus: I don't think that you realize how little we know of what is going on.
Did the details in http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=50006 help? :D We guessed as closely as we could to the real party info.
Gloom, indeed sceners are hired for ages.. cant arhue about that..
but with all that outreach and stuff this proces is for sure speeded up.
which isnt benefitting the demoscene in general becoz this could generate less releases if people are hired sooner..
also those americans signed up alot of sceners to make something for there party which *could* mean that the traditional party's held during the year could get a more hollow competitorsfield.. (its not like there will be way more good demoscene prods becoz of this)
i am curious how this all words out in the end .. a lookback and analysis on 2008 will show this I guesss...
we wait and wonder...
but with all that outreach and stuff this proces is for sure speeded up.
which isnt benefitting the demoscene in general becoz this could generate less releases if people are hired sooner..
also those americans signed up alot of sceners to make something for there party which *could* mean that the traditional party's held during the year could get a more hollow competitorsfield.. (its not like there will be way more good demoscene prods becoz of this)
i am curious how this all words out in the end .. a lookback and analysis on 2008 will show this I guesss...
we wait and wonder...
lemmus: agreed on many counts, but.
I think the situation is very similar to the intel license thing - the fact that you ask more often doesn't necessarily mean that we make more progress. sure, we could send out an email saying "nothing happened, keep waiting", but that's just really postponing the issue.
we're really really trying to get this issue out of our hands, as you may imagine, to avoid more friction and to finally be able to start on the actual party organizing.
Quote:
After all you have a list with email-adresses from all the sceners having applied for a demobox. Sending out a short infomail every fortnight - just with the info that you have not forgotten and that you are doing the best you can - would do a huge difference, I think.
I think the situation is very similar to the intel license thing - the fact that you ask more often doesn't necessarily mean that we make more progress. sure, we could send out an email saying "nothing happened, keep waiting", but that's just really postponing the issue.
we're really really trying to get this issue out of our hands, as you may imagine, to avoid more friction and to finally be able to start on the actual party organizing.
magic: the recruitment aspect doesnt really matter because most well known sceners making good demos these days *already have jobs*.
speaking of which, smash, would you like a system admin job in downtown manhattan ? :-)
am I on the list?
smash, starting a new job, in the usa, takes alot of getting used to and energy and time.. still not good for the productivity of the hired scener(s)
off topic, army duty is also a pain in the ass for the productivity of demosceners.. thanx god holland got rid of this duty 15 years ago :)
as if there were any 18-year-old sceners these days :)
reed: there are more overaged sceners acting like 18 year old's hehe ;)
magic, what do you suggest then? That companies who want to support the scene does it by refusing to employ sceners?
hollowman LOL
hollowman: i dont suggest anything, just trying the discuss a topic and pointing out how is could be..
what do you suggest? keep your boss from finding out you are a member of flt? :-)
what do you suggest? keep your boss from finding out you are a member of flt? :-)
magic : I suggest you STFU and you let people do whatever they like.
magic, the master of ad hominem.
I suggest that you whine, bitch and moan about it endlessly on the bbs.
Good one gargaj.. lets not take this out of proportion.. let it rest..
roflkartoffel
As we speak, only _7_ people are registered.
US demo scene would really benefit from this party, why not just ditch the demobox crap and come for this weird reason called "fun" ?
US demo scene would really benefit from this party, why not just ditch the demobox crap and come for this weird reason called "fun" ?
btw, http://nvision.scene.org/rules/ < please please please add Linux as a platform... You got a Macintosh platform, XP AND VISTA(!), why not make it a complete cross platform competition with Linux support?
If drivers/installation is the issue, Ubuntu is very easy to setup, and it installs the nvidia drivers automatically.
Please?
If drivers/installation is the issue, Ubuntu is very easy to setup, and it installs the nvidia drivers automatically.
Please?
LiraNuna: the thing about Linux is that none of us are really into Linux and hence we couldnt guarantee that demos dont break because we screwed up something. that said, if you're willing to lend a hand in setting up a linux compo machine, we can probably provide the hardware for it.
publish the list, it'll be motivation, and it'll give closure to those who didnt make it.
