sweden said no to the empire
category: general [glöplog]
Riiiiight. Wages will never adjust. Not in 100 years. Sure thing.
Just ask yourself why the USA is so "strong" economically -- don't you think the fact that those 300 million people use the same currency might play a role?
Or ask those ignorant businessmen, maybe they can explain to you why it's just so much easier to trade with unified currency.
I wonder if anybody defies those facts.
Just ask yourself why the USA is so "strong" economically -- don't you think the fact that those 300 million people use the same currency might play a role?
Or ask those ignorant businessmen, maybe they can explain to you why it's just so much easier to trade with unified currency.
I wonder if anybody defies those facts.
Heres my 2 cents: Sell the northern parts of sweden to Africa. About the EU thingie: 60% of the swedish population is pro-EU and less than 40% isnt. The rest doesnt know. Many people voted no just because they are misscontent in general.. Ive heared several say that they vote no just beacuase the taxes are to high on estates or something else that has no connection to EMU. Well... Who gives a shit really.. I will move to a more sane country as soon as I am finished using the system (read: getting money for studying).
Coming from the west, my take on all this is that the Euro benefits producers more than consumers. It's like Bush's current economic policy - if you focus on helping businesses, they will thrive and hopefully create more jobs. Unfortunately that hasn't quite happened because American businesses aren't hiring; they're just making the same number of people do more work. Anyway, the moral of this story is, it's okay to make policy that benefits the individual, but when everyone except you gets rich, don't expect a piece of the pie. :)
pegasus: 100% bullshit, been listening alot to lundgren have we? :)
ok.. the reason why people voted no in sweden (ofcourse not all because of same reasons):
* ECB is acting behind shut doors, nothing swedes likes (heard about 'democracy) wich showed bigtime when swedish ministers published info from the eu parlament wich is the only way to go for a swedish politician with swedish views on democracy.
* Ok, to many words in english i cant care to look up, but if you check how the euro currency is steared, (fixed intrest? hmm, my english sucks;) it works like the system we had in sweden when we had an economic cricis, people dont want that again, so again, people who knows their history voted no.
* The "yes to euro" campaign was very dirty and made people think it was something bad with this in general, in swedish debate programs the yes people always referred to "experts" wich ofcourse you know, where hired by the yes side, to take up some specific "facts" (wich all was proven wrong or atleast proven that they wherent facts, but just predictions). And if they didnt refer to experts they did personal insults on the "no to euro" guy.. Then this combined with that newspapers and massmedia in general where 100% bought by yes side and they wrote that the yes side won all debate programs wich generally NOBODY could agree to honestly, made people think this was even more dirty.
To quote the BBC reporter:
"Today democracy won" ...
And after all, this isnt a permanent no, this is a no to join the euro currency NOW, we can still join later, if we see that it works out good for the other nations..
Then again, its not working out *so* good for other nations, wich is ofcourse blamed on the current economical weather in general.. But that combined that we are going better economical in sweden.. Tough luck we wanna join the euro atm :)
ok.. the reason why people voted no in sweden (ofcourse not all because of same reasons):
* ECB is acting behind shut doors, nothing swedes likes (heard about 'democracy) wich showed bigtime when swedish ministers published info from the eu parlament wich is the only way to go for a swedish politician with swedish views on democracy.
* Ok, to many words in english i cant care to look up, but if you check how the euro currency is steared, (fixed intrest? hmm, my english sucks;) it works like the system we had in sweden when we had an economic cricis, people dont want that again, so again, people who knows their history voted no.
* The "yes to euro" campaign was very dirty and made people think it was something bad with this in general, in swedish debate programs the yes people always referred to "experts" wich ofcourse you know, where hired by the yes side, to take up some specific "facts" (wich all was proven wrong or atleast proven that they wherent facts, but just predictions). And if they didnt refer to experts they did personal insults on the "no to euro" guy.. Then this combined with that newspapers and massmedia in general where 100% bought by yes side and they wrote that the yes side won all debate programs wich generally NOBODY could agree to honestly, made people think this was even more dirty.
To quote the BBC reporter:
"Today democracy won" ...
And after all, this isnt a permanent no, this is a no to join the euro currency NOW, we can still join later, if we see that it works out good for the other nations..
Then again, its not working out *so* good for other nations, wich is ofcourse blamed on the current economical weather in general.. But that combined that we are going better economical in sweden.. Tough luck we wanna join the euro atm :)
and i forgot..
* Lots of people are HAPPY with the way things are atm, and doesnt want to spend all the money it costs to join the euro cooperation and also risc our welfare..
* Lots of people are HAPPY with the way things are atm, and doesnt want to spend all the money it costs to join the euro cooperation and also risc our welfare..
arneweisse: touché. :) ..and thanks for voting no - it will help the no-movement here in norway when those eu-horny bastards in the current government pushes through the next vote.
WE DONT WANT NORWAY IN EU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:P :D
:P :D
Vhiiula: Well, just in case that you forgot: USA is *one* big country so they have logically also one currency. No country will have more than one valid currency.
But Europe (or here the EU) is a conglomerate of different people and countries, so what's wrong to have also different currencies. The economical situation in the EU countries is also very different and so it's better when they have the control over their currency instead of being dependent from one big central bank and some bureaucrats in Brussels. For the rest I agree with phoenix, only the big business benefits from the EURO.
But Europe (or here the EU) is a conglomerate of different people and countries, so what's wrong to have also different currencies. The economical situation in the EU countries is also very different and so it's better when they have the control over their currency instead of being dependent from one big central bank and some bureaucrats in Brussels. For the rest I agree with phoenix, only the big business benefits from the EURO.
"USA is *one* big country"
well.. its "united states of america" and it is exactly what it sounds like... =)
well.. its "united states of america" and it is exactly what it sounds like... =)
Chameleon pig boy. hehe classic
i'll stay out of the actual conversation which is as retarded as every other world politics/economics related conversation on pouet (or any conversation on pouet, for that matter), but something peggy said caught my eye:
60% of the swedish population is pro-EU and less than 40% isnt. The rest doesnt know. Many people voted no just because they are misscontent in general
i remember reading about that in some finnish magazine, they had interviewed a certain swedish woman in her 50s who didn't know what to vote. just before the magazine was to be printed, she told them she voted no, because "i still don't know which one is a better choice, but i do know what we have now."
this is basic psychology, natural opposition against any changes to the current situation :) even if the usual sentimentality of losing a symbol of independence etc was, if not absent, at least not obvious in her reasoning. i reckon these things affected a lot of people who were unsure of the actual pros and cons of the options.
60% of the swedish population is pro-EU and less than 40% isnt. The rest doesnt know. Many people voted no just because they are misscontent in general
i remember reading about that in some finnish magazine, they had interviewed a certain swedish woman in her 50s who didn't know what to vote. just before the magazine was to be printed, she told them she voted no, because "i still don't know which one is a better choice, but i do know what we have now."
this is basic psychology, natural opposition against any changes to the current situation :) even if the usual sentimentality of losing a symbol of independence etc was, if not absent, at least not obvious in her reasoning. i reckon these things affected a lot of people who were unsure of the actual pros and cons of the options.
Crest, http://www.guardian.co.uk/euro/story/0,11306,616567,00.html
Quote:
The USA
The world's best known federation, the United States, had no unified currency throughout its early history. Banks needed permission from the state governments to operate, but were overseen by America's first central bank, founded in 1791. A second central bank was created in 1816 and operated until 1832. After this, state governments, often inadequately, took over bank supervision.
The many different currencies issued by state banks traded at a premium or discount to each other but, by 1860, over 10,000 different types of bank notes were in circulation; counterfeiting was rife and commerce across the US suffered because of it.
Crest, did you have a pay cut this year?
We are talking about today, not about things which are dating back more than 100 years. So it's still logical that one nation has one currency. But Europe is not one nation, so what?
And for the question: I'm unemployed like 20% of the people here (according to inofficial sources 7 million ppl in the whole country) but even with a job I wouldn't think different.
And for the question: I'm unemployed like 20% of the people here (according to inofficial sources 7 million ppl in the whole country) but even with a job I wouldn't think different.
i'm sad today... swedish young people look like old fools in mind :(
a united Europe is da future, preventing european wars, counterbalancing US Empire total domination (calling Europe an empire is such geopolitical ignorance !), solving major environment problems (like the dirty oil slick that hit Spain and France so badly), and making economic flow easier in Europe...
i wouldn't have think some swedish demosceners could be so selfish, retrograde and narrow-minded :/
a united Europe is da future, preventing european wars, counterbalancing US Empire total domination (calling Europe an empire is such geopolitical ignorance !), solving major environment problems (like the dirty oil slick that hit Spain and France so badly), and making economic flow easier in Europe...
i wouldn't have think some swedish demosceners could be so selfish, retrograde and narrow-minded :/
zest: i will not crie when you die :)
There are advantages and disadvantages in the union, ones that I don't know and only hear from people. But I am possitive about it, just because I am so ignorant and stuff and I seem to just love Europe enough! :)
The only bad I felt with the unified currency, is some greek assholes were rounding up the costs of their products to their advantage, and suddenly 30Euros pocketmoney per week wasn't enough for me anymore (or, too much websurfing on the netcafe's must be the reason ;)
The only bad I felt with the unified currency, is some greek assholes were rounding up the costs of their products to their advantage, and suddenly 30Euros pocketmoney per week wasn't enough for me anymore (or, too much websurfing on the netcafe's must be the reason ;)
zest: exactly, plain misinformed ignorance.
Optimus, actually same thing seemed to happen in Finland too. Politicians told us how the price of products would get lower. Heck, everything seemed to become more expensive! Eg. pair of sports shoes cost around 200 FIM and nowadays they cost around 40 euros (where 1 euro = 5,94573 FIM). Those sons-of-bitches.
hey, rejoice, at least you'll lose your inflated alcohol prices ;)
prices have been increased, but this is not directly related to the euro (allthough that indeed does not make it less irritating).
but hey, 40 euros for a pair of sneakers, that's nothing, stop whining =)
but hey, 40 euros for a pair of sneakers, that's nothing, stop whining =)
Yeah like housing prices.. no relation to the euro at all, and it kills
a big part of the usual young person's budget.
And besides, cheap prices often mean somebody gets exploited
somewhere.. sadly.
(I didn't say expensive prices meant people weren't getting exploited
either, but if you pick well..)
a big part of the usual young person's budget.
And besides, cheap prices often mean somebody gets exploited
somewhere.. sadly.
(I didn't say expensive prices meant people weren't getting exploited
either, but if you pick well..)
Hay s`plek[bps+dmg], if we're talking about adibas shoes, from Estonia's black market ;D
Sweden is cool like Switzerland. We don't like Euro cause this money looks like crap (ugly colors, ugly design), first time I had 10 euros in the hands, I said..man, even toilet-paper is better.
Prices will go up and down anyway. I think when the currency changes, stuff will go up (sure, the shoes maybe should cost €37.80, but stuff is always rounded to €39.95 anyway :). But I think that will just mean that the price won't go up again for a few years, so it will balance out.
Here in the UK we have no euro, and most shop prices are actually going down slightly because there's more competition recently. But house prices are going up fast, I think an average house is somewhere around €200,000 now. And if we joined the euro today, interest rates would drop, mortgages would get cheaper, and the house prices would rise much more, so young people could no longer afford to buy a house at all...
So, perhaps there are many more reasons for and against the euro. Personally, i think we should have it here, but not now, perhaps in 3-5 years.
Here in the UK we have no euro, and most shop prices are actually going down slightly because there's more competition recently. But house prices are going up fast, I think an average house is somewhere around €200,000 now. And if we joined the euro today, interest rates would drop, mortgages would get cheaper, and the house prices would rise much more, so young people could no longer afford to buy a house at all...
So, perhaps there are many more reasons for and against the euro. Personally, i think we should have it here, but not now, perhaps in 3-5 years.
