Crysis dx10 on windows xp?!
category: general [glöplog]
yeah like the pokemon mini.
hope its no repost
http://www.lwgame.net/news/2008-02-04-4
http://www.lwgame.net/news/2008-02-04-4
g0d bless russia!
to be used carefully, because the system can completely crash. nevertheless I like the idea of it. M$ will also like it. :D
I stand corrected. assassins creed for PC is an awsome game despite of all its technical shortcommings (and they are many and they are great, and most are next to unforgivable). Good thing i didnt waste any money on this piece of (good looking but nevertheless) shitcode and got another 8800gt for SLI to run it with instead! God job whatever sceners should be ashamed of themself for participating in such a poorly coded demo.....oh theres a game in there? not in the jerusalem level lolz!
oh wait, we gamers have blazing fast pc's, just upgrade one more time and jerusalame will be right there...back on the map!
from GDC 2008:
http://liranuna.homelinux.com/GDC08/lectures/CRYSIS%20Next-Gen%20Effects.WMA
Sorry for WMA, I wasn't the one who bought the recorder :/
http://liranuna.homelinux.com/GDC08/lectures/CRYSIS%20Next-Gen%20Effects.WMA
Sorry for WMA, I wasn't the one who bought the recorder :/
iblis, what are you babbling about? either you mistook the forum or you somehow expect all sceners to know maps from some game by heart..
(not meant offensively, i guess i'm pretty interested to find out what's wrong with it but you didn't really care to elaborate)
(not meant offensively, i guess i'm pretty interested to find out what's wrong with it but you didn't really care to elaborate)
skrebbel no i was just being an asshole towards another user here who "works in the gaming industry". The deal is that a pirated version of the game for pc is floating around the internet.
Obviously this is a release candidate closer to a beta than that of finnished code, however, the atmohsphere surrounding the project, the ridiculously high system requirements because of a monstrosity of an engine and game makers try to pass their terrible xbox conversion on to the players with nojnense like "but they have fast pc's if they buy games", which is the kind of logic introduced by Holberg in Erasmus Montanus basically.
So it sums down to me being snide about the fact that i was right. The reason there the system requirements there is, is because it is one stinking steaming pile of shit, and they should be ashamed of themself to release. And to add insult to injury, i know where this particular copy came from, and it was not from a review copy but one that was cased and ready to fly, so my guess is that someone as ubisloth is sweating buckets right now as the whole jerusalem level (important) is unplayable.
The release date has been moved, so what they are going to do is what gamemakers now do as the standarad. Rush it together in a version that works ...somewhat....and then try and patch it to a full release later on. Fuck that, so im being an asshole about it because that is more comfortable than creating games myself, just like creating slobby code and try to sell it as full working code is more comfortable....you get the point im sure :)
And for the record...if platform games are you're thing, this will not let you down but it is no excuse for lazyness, especially as there unlike what the makers themself might think, are people who pay cash money for their games as to support what they do. And just like im used to getting a whole car when i buy one brand new, im sick and fucking tired pf patching stuff that should have spend atleast 3 months more in the QUALITY CONTROL department.
if the fault rests with the publishers, refuse to work under such conditions as to protect those that support you. Show some pride in your work dammit! (not you personally skrebel, it turned into an iblis rant.tm)
(iblis, standarad and slobby are (c)opyright iblis 2007)
Obviously this is a release candidate closer to a beta than that of finnished code, however, the atmohsphere surrounding the project, the ridiculously high system requirements because of a monstrosity of an engine and game makers try to pass their terrible xbox conversion on to the players with nojnense like "but they have fast pc's if they buy games", which is the kind of logic introduced by Holberg in Erasmus Montanus basically.
So it sums down to me being snide about the fact that i was right. The reason there the system requirements there is, is because it is one stinking steaming pile of shit, and they should be ashamed of themself to release. And to add insult to injury, i know where this particular copy came from, and it was not from a review copy but one that was cased and ready to fly, so my guess is that someone as ubisloth is sweating buckets right now as the whole jerusalem level (important) is unplayable.
The release date has been moved, so what they are going to do is what gamemakers now do as the standarad. Rush it together in a version that works ...somewhat....and then try and patch it to a full release later on. Fuck that, so im being an asshole about it because that is more comfortable than creating games myself, just like creating slobby code and try to sell it as full working code is more comfortable....you get the point im sure :)
And for the record...if platform games are you're thing, this will not let you down but it is no excuse for lazyness, especially as there unlike what the makers themself might think, are people who pay cash money for their games as to support what they do. And just like im used to getting a whole car when i buy one brand new, im sick and fucking tired pf patching stuff that should have spend atleast 3 months more in the QUALITY CONTROL department.
if the fault rests with the publishers, refuse to work under such conditions as to protect those that support you. Show some pride in your work dammit! (not you personally skrebel, it turned into an iblis rant.tm)
(iblis, standarad and slobby are (c)opyright iblis 2007)
Stop fucking whining. NVidia is sponsoring BP, just make a decent demo and win a card and go home and be happy.
what the fuck does nvidia have to do with anything, and why are you replying if you're not reading what people write huh fucktard?
obviously iblis knows how business works.
sigh..
sigh..
/me hugs Iblis :)
lol cheers mate. \hugs back
now tell me, was my rant that sad, or did my buckshot rant actually hit a point here and there? :)
now tell me, was my rant that sad, or did my buckshot rant actually hit a point here and there? :)
iblis:
All those people upgrading all the time keep hardware prices falling. And because of that, you can always choose to buy older hardware to play older games and pay next to nothing for it.
What you're really asking for is that software companies optimise so you don't have to wait to play their games. They then have to weigh the cost of those improvements to the code (including sorting out all the new bugs, and all the extra testing required, and so on) against the extra money they'd make by reaching a larger audience now, instead of reaching the rest when the required hardware spec eventually becomes affordable to them.
They also have to factor in the considerable number of idiots among their customers who want to FEEL that all the money they spent on new hardware is being put to good use.
Of course, despite that, my Radeon X1600 Pro that I paid 100€ for like two years ago still performs really well. My CPU is a bit newer but nothing in my PC is exactly state-of-the-art, and I can still run Crysis, HL2, Portal <3, even Fairlight demos, at a very reasonable framerate.
All those people upgrading all the time keep hardware prices falling. And because of that, you can always choose to buy older hardware to play older games and pay next to nothing for it.
What you're really asking for is that software companies optimise so you don't have to wait to play their games. They then have to weigh the cost of those improvements to the code (including sorting out all the new bugs, and all the extra testing required, and so on) against the extra money they'd make by reaching a larger audience now, instead of reaching the rest when the required hardware spec eventually becomes affordable to them.
They also have to factor in the considerable number of idiots among their customers who want to FEEL that all the money they spent on new hardware is being put to good use.
Of course, despite that, my Radeon X1600 Pro that I paid 100€ for like two years ago still performs really well. My CPU is a bit newer but nothing in my PC is exactly state-of-the-art, and I can still run Crysis, HL2, Portal <3, even Fairlight demos, at a very reasonable framerate.
Iblis : I will to summarize according to what I saw in your posts, I did not read them all sorry, it's too big :)
- it's actually wrong to assume that in general game developpers go like "oh well, buy a more powerful PC". The broader the audience, the better for the sales. A lot of time is usually spent on optimizations.
- You mentionned Assassin's Creed PC and its insane minimum requirements, considering the console version. Let's see :
* Pentium D 2.6GHz (Dual Core) (or AMD equivalent)
* 1GB RAM (WinXP) or 2GB (WinVISTA) (3 GB recommanded)
* nVidia 6800 (or Shader Model 3.0 compliant or ATI equivalent)
A 2.6GHz Dualcore PC doesn't sound too demanding considering the CPU power of the 360 and the PS3.
The game was made for consoles having between 400 and 500 MB of RAM available. If you take into account the RAM that WinXP and Vista take, those 1 GB and 2 GB for the PC version are just plain logical (Vista alone takes almost 1GB)
A 6800 is quite old if you think about it, we're now 3 generations later with the 9xxx series.
If you want to have an interesting insight, just have a look at some "big" demos released in 2008 and having the same requirements. If you compare the ratio content/requirements, you will probably start to realize a few things, especially if you keep in mind that content also includes interactivity, physics and AI with something else than a few 3d objects on screen.
Having one mp3, a few textures and models for one scene in a non interactive demo with a preset camera path is one thing.
Having an entire open world with thousands of objects, hundreds of textures, physics/collisions, enemies, thousands of sounds and totally unpredictable player inputs is another thing.
- About the quality control, believe it or not but this kind of game has a dedicated QA team during the entire production and a big team of testers as well. However, such games with open environments are incredibly complex and no matter how hard you try, there will always be a lot of bugs left.
- The release date is often non negotiable. A one month delay can lead to dramatically affected sales, for various reasons. As you can imagine, you can't endlessly delay the release of a game that cost $30M just to fix a few bugs, taking the risk of losing 25% of your sales. At some point, compromises have to be done.
- Also, game console sales can outperform PC sales by a 10/1 factor, hence the sometimes less polished PC versions (speaking in general there, not for a particular game).
To get back to the quality issue you mentionned : in the end, 6 million units were sold which means that other projects in the same company will benefit from it. Thanks to the huge benefits Assassin generated, other games in the studio have their budget revised and those people have to worry less about money issues and can focus more on creativity and quality :)
- it's actually wrong to assume that in general game developpers go like "oh well, buy a more powerful PC". The broader the audience, the better for the sales. A lot of time is usually spent on optimizations.
- You mentionned Assassin's Creed PC and its insane minimum requirements, considering the console version. Let's see :
* Pentium D 2.6GHz (Dual Core) (or AMD equivalent)
* 1GB RAM (WinXP) or 2GB (WinVISTA) (3 GB recommanded)
* nVidia 6800 (or Shader Model 3.0 compliant or ATI equivalent)
A 2.6GHz Dualcore PC doesn't sound too demanding considering the CPU power of the 360 and the PS3.
The game was made for consoles having between 400 and 500 MB of RAM available. If you take into account the RAM that WinXP and Vista take, those 1 GB and 2 GB for the PC version are just plain logical (Vista alone takes almost 1GB)
A 6800 is quite old if you think about it, we're now 3 generations later with the 9xxx series.
If you want to have an interesting insight, just have a look at some "big" demos released in 2008 and having the same requirements. If you compare the ratio content/requirements, you will probably start to realize a few things, especially if you keep in mind that content also includes interactivity, physics and AI with something else than a few 3d objects on screen.
Having one mp3, a few textures and models for one scene in a non interactive demo with a preset camera path is one thing.
Having an entire open world with thousands of objects, hundreds of textures, physics/collisions, enemies, thousands of sounds and totally unpredictable player inputs is another thing.
- About the quality control, believe it or not but this kind of game has a dedicated QA team during the entire production and a big team of testers as well. However, such games with open environments are incredibly complex and no matter how hard you try, there will always be a lot of bugs left.
- The release date is often non negotiable. A one month delay can lead to dramatically affected sales, for various reasons. As you can imagine, you can't endlessly delay the release of a game that cost $30M just to fix a few bugs, taking the risk of losing 25% of your sales. At some point, compromises have to be done.
- Also, game console sales can outperform PC sales by a 10/1 factor, hence the sometimes less polished PC versions (speaking in general there, not for a particular game).
To get back to the quality issue you mentionned : in the end, 6 million units were sold which means that other projects in the same company will benefit from it. Thanks to the huge benefits Assassin generated, other games in the studio have their budget revised and those people have to worry less about money issues and can focus more on creativity and quality :)
But Keops, now you're trying to use reason and common sense to win over an internet troll.. :)
It's only natural that newer games demand newer technology.
Of course game companies do a certain amount of optimizing - I mean, I was amazed to find out that someone actually managed to run Crysis on a Radeon 9800XT!
But game companies have to survive and in the battle against other game companies, you have to produce good looking, playable games in no time at all. Nobody wants to wait 5 years for a bugfree game that runs impeccable on 5 year old hardware, or what?
As Doom said: you have a choice - either do what it takes to play new games, or try to find joy in the old games. I mean, you DID enjoy the old games, didn't you?
Of course game companies do a certain amount of optimizing - I mean, I was amazed to find out that someone actually managed to run Crysis on a Radeon 9800XT!
But game companies have to survive and in the battle against other game companies, you have to produce good looking, playable games in no time at all. Nobody wants to wait 5 years for a bugfree game that runs impeccable on 5 year old hardware, or what?
As Doom said: you have a choice - either do what it takes to play new games, or try to find joy in the old games. I mean, you DID enjoy the old games, didn't you?
Or: buy a console for the price of a graphic card alone, get a good choice of good looking games, avoid the endless hassle of patches and driver updates (not to mention fixing windows), and in 5 years there will still be lots of good games that run on your 5 year old hardware perfectly.
Maybe that's why console games are outselling pc games 10/1?
Maybe that's why console games are outselling pc games 10/1?
probably. it couldn't have been the warez.
keops: you're totally right there.
i find it very amusing when people (usually sceners) moan about needing a e.g. a 6800 card or ps3.0, when that card is more than 3 years old.
in the good old dos days you had to upgrade a lot more often than this to be able to run modern stuff at all - and you'd have to upgrade large amounts of the system each time. it was expensive too. nowadays upgrades are relatively cheap - you can stay in the game just by buying a new $100 gfxcard every so often.
considering the price of the games themselves (you are BUYING the games, aren't you? you arent ripping them off the internet and then having the cheek to moan about their requirements, are you?), the investment needed in the hw isnt that massive.
i find it very amusing when people (usually sceners) moan about needing a e.g. a 6800 card or ps3.0, when that card is more than 3 years old.
in the good old dos days you had to upgrade a lot more often than this to be able to run modern stuff at all - and you'd have to upgrade large amounts of the system each time. it was expensive too. nowadays upgrades are relatively cheap - you can stay in the game just by buying a new $100 gfxcard every so often.
considering the price of the games themselves (you are BUYING the games, aren't you? you arent ripping them off the internet and then having the cheek to moan about their requirements, are you?), the investment needed in the hw isnt that massive.
psonice: that's overgeneralization. Some crossplatform games are natively PC and are released on PC before (like any Valve game, the Orange Box) and thus sell more on PC, specially through a dedicated download platform like Steam, some 'oldschool' gameplay don't behave well on consoles (non japanese diehard RPG, diehard strategy games, RTS...) and PC is still the best platform for independent gamemakers (even with the tiny console attempts like WiiWare or XNA Creators' Club).
The pandemic problem of PC as a gaming platform is that most are crappy laptops used for office, web or media that can't play decently any recent big game.
The pandemic problem of PC as a gaming platform is that most are crappy laptops used for office, web or media that can't play decently any recent big game.
Also one should take into consideration that the developers wont probably start to develop a game that takes 2-3-4 years to develop on hardware that is normal hardware right now, since harware right now would be ancient in 2-3-4 years.
Of course you have to set your target hardware quite high when you develop to be sure that the game targets a realatively new set of hardware when released (this is needed both for impact, but also to underline that your game is taking advantage of the new hardware, otherwise you will lose against other game titles)
In short: it is always simple to complain about something you have not tried to do yourself. Detting the idea for a game, designing the game, prototyping it, developing it, creating levels, quality assuring the games all takes a HELL lot of ressources, which are not understandable for many end-users.
smash: of course people are buying the games - how could you think that people would bash a triple A game they got for free?... </irony>
Of course you have to set your target hardware quite high when you develop to be sure that the game targets a realatively new set of hardware when released (this is needed both for impact, but also to underline that your game is taking advantage of the new hardware, otherwise you will lose against other game titles)
In short: it is always simple to complain about something you have not tried to do yourself. Detting the idea for a game, designing the game, prototyping it, developing it, creating levels, quality assuring the games all takes a HELL lot of ressources, which are not understandable for many end-users.
smash: of course people are buying the games - how could you think that people would bash a triple A game they got for free?... </irony>
smash, well i never moan, but your assumption only holds for people who own a decent desktop (and want to own one - i value space and mobility more than super duper hardware). my 2 year old laptop stopped being able to run recent demos over a year ago, and upgrading that is a bit more costly than buying a game or two.
don't get me wrong, it's my own choice. but the "come on, it all runs on 3 year old hardware" argument is a bit sloppy in a time when a big amount of gamers/sceners/etc only own laptops, and said hardware was top notch desktop stuff back then. it means a mobile version with the same power was released a year later, and then you'd need the most expensive laptop out there.
don't get me wrong, it's my own choice. but the "come on, it all runs on 3 year old hardware" argument is a bit sloppy in a time when a big amount of gamers/sceners/etc only own laptops, and said hardware was top notch desktop stuff back then. it means a mobile version with the same power was released a year later, and then you'd need the most expensive laptop out there.
I hear you keops, but at the same time i do find it a little deceptive atleast in the A.creed case. Nobody buys assasins creed to run it at lowest possible setting. The game mehcanics turn you into postman Pat in 800ad damascus, but what makes it worthwhile is the fact that you will be stepping on your jaw pretty much from the opening sequence.
And the patching problem, i mean i thought i could rid myself of it by going console...boy did i have another thing comming. I can undertand it with mmorpgs, and large online games in general, but single player games that does not have open worlds, and those that didnt need them at all ..i mean what are their excuse, if not either lazyness or a publisher that should be told ...look, do you want the game or not? ...Then wait untill its FINNISHED!, then what is it?
Gloom i protests...im not an internet troll, im a troll that use the internet dammit!
nutman : favorite game still is fallout. The experience that game gave me the fist time i played it has still not been beaten imo, last game before that, that had me hooked in the same way was MI on the Amiga :)
smash, thank you for insinuating that im a theif. Its the very thing that moves more and more gamers to piracy i reckon. The draconian protection systems and the fact that publishers have the fucking nerve to include anti piracy slogans and what not against the costumers that pay.
Imagine that you go into a shop to buy a vase and when you pay, the clerk looks at you and says "well, tis good that you bought it this time instead of stealing it", and then when you get home the vase can only be placed on the table in the living room. If you try to move it somewhere else you just cant, or are told to buy another vase. How would you react?
The other part is, this is how crysis was sold:
however here is the reality of what most got to see on their non 10.000$ quadcore quadSLI beast.
assasins creed: holy shit!!! this is breathtaking:
This is what most people got to see on their 3 year old card that is listed as required to play the game:
so the fact that you can run a game on old hardware, does not mean that you get the game as advertised, which is the game that youd actually like to play. Why even have minimum requirements? "here you can play this crippled version of our idea...barely" and then go out to advertise what it looks like on computers few people can afford?
on piracy..im happy im not making pc games ill tell you that. Crytech must be crying (no pun) at the fact they sold the game 1 million times compared to it being dowloaded apx 20 million times. I think i just wouldnt bother, so respect to those that actually does. Now do it properly so i dont feel ripped off half the times i put down money for pc games.
And the patching problem, i mean i thought i could rid myself of it by going console...boy did i have another thing comming. I can undertand it with mmorpgs, and large online games in general, but single player games that does not have open worlds, and those that didnt need them at all ..i mean what are their excuse, if not either lazyness or a publisher that should be told ...look, do you want the game or not? ...Then wait untill its FINNISHED!, then what is it?
Gloom i protests...im not an internet troll, im a troll that use the internet dammit!
nutman : favorite game still is fallout. The experience that game gave me the fist time i played it has still not been beaten imo, last game before that, that had me hooked in the same way was MI on the Amiga :)
smash, thank you for insinuating that im a theif. Its the very thing that moves more and more gamers to piracy i reckon. The draconian protection systems and the fact that publishers have the fucking nerve to include anti piracy slogans and what not against the costumers that pay.
Imagine that you go into a shop to buy a vase and when you pay, the clerk looks at you and says "well, tis good that you bought it this time instead of stealing it", and then when you get home the vase can only be placed on the table in the living room. If you try to move it somewhere else you just cant, or are told to buy another vase. How would you react?
The other part is, this is how crysis was sold:
however here is the reality of what most got to see on their non 10.000$ quadcore quadSLI beast.
assasins creed: holy shit!!! this is breathtaking:
This is what most people got to see on their 3 year old card that is listed as required to play the game:
so the fact that you can run a game on old hardware, does not mean that you get the game as advertised, which is the game that youd actually like to play. Why even have minimum requirements? "here you can play this crippled version of our idea...barely" and then go out to advertise what it looks like on computers few people can afford?
on piracy..im happy im not making pc games ill tell you that. Crytech must be crying (no pun) at the fact they sold the game 1 million times compared to it being dowloaded apx 20 million times. I think i just wouldnt bother, so respect to those that actually does. Now do it properly so i dont feel ripped off half the times i put down money for pc games.