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UltimateGas, ah.. good ;) There's a reason why the smileys are invented... maybe if I had seen his comments earlier I could have spotted the sarcasm.

Also there's no animated gif support. Sumo has requested quite a long time ago, and I refused to do one :) I cant remember why. Maybe some day...

Now I got to focus on work for a while.

memon: make it.. "here you have the rendering window" , "you need to care about this shit" .. and let people make own rasterizers... would rock :)

i hate using others d3d code hehe

I think I'll made the Drivers more open... that way you can do more what you please with it.

But I think the driver is going ot be pretty much like: here's the window, here's the pointer to the D3D, do what ever you like.. :)

Even with the OGL driver all it does is setup the projection matrix + scrissor test (and reset the modelview matrix).

hmm, but d3d needs to be inited in special ways sometimes, to make it more flexible :)

Shane is lame and Demopaja rules.

MRI: memon is helpful? That's an understatement :)

I think demopaja pretty cool stuff, even if I currently just use it as an animatic tool so stern coders know what the fuck I mean with "rotate that thingie and offset it to that thingie to make it go like a bob-thingie, like there" ;)

Sorry about the misunderstanding Memon. You are right tho and shane would save himself a lot of shit if he made it clear when he was being sarcastic.

i hope and wait for that "some day" to come. ;)

what do you expect of a "demowank" (spanish translation) ;) Demowankers are lame!

Yeah Memon I am sorry if I sounded like I was flaming. It wasn't meant that way so here's that smiley I didn't include. Just for you.....

we're trying to talk about demopaja here. can "shane" and the "shane is lame" crowd get lost?

the problem is:
as long as it is the coder's job to put the parts of a demo together, usually everything ends up in "coder design".
to avoid this, you simply have to give the designer the possibility to put everything together.
but the designer can't code (otherwise he would be the coder ;), so scripting systems or languages are usually not of a very big help here.
therefore some realtime graphical preview & design tool absolutely makes sense. and for this task demopaja is definately great.

on the other hand, for me - as a coder - it somehow doesn't feel good to build all my code around the system of someone else. in a way this always is a limitation, even if that system is as flexible as demopaja actually is.

if i just could implement my own basic d3d setup (in my opinion and at the current state of rendering functionality, d3d does make more sense then using opengl) into demopaja, i would most probably use it, too.
simply because i hate coding guis :)

Well, having the designer using a GUI is a win, IMO. It definitely was for us. At some point, I looked into demopaja to see if we could use it, but we couldnt plug ourselves to some stuff (for example, using d3d), so in a 'not made here syndrome' burst, we made our own gui (for 3p), which has worked reasonably well (but has sucked up a lot of time to mantain, add features, etc...). I did a talk recently in Pilgrimage describing our system and what are we doing right now

http://www.xplsv.com/prods/talks/Building%20a%20Demo%20Framework.ppt

A bunch of people are now using GUIs, and it helps improve the quality, so I don't think its lame, if using a gui (even its not yours) you end up with better productions vs code or script base sync, not using one of these tools (your own or demopaja's) is silly, you are just going to waste more time.

helli, I don't know how D3D works, but OpenGL pretty much lets you do whatever you like even if someone else has set up the rendering context. The 3D engine I made for demopaja is not dependent on demopaja at all. Instead it has an OOP design so I just implement some classes that plugs it into demopaja instead of some other application. I'm not building my code around demopaja at all. Well, some small misc. effects are, but that's another story.

Demopaja is definitely one of the major reason DSD managed to do a comeback. Mind you, we haven't really *coded* anything new since 1997. :-)
Spare time is really precious for me nowdays. And probably my mentality has changed too, so I don't mind borrowing other peoples tools if it saves me some work. The goal is see the finnished product on the bigscreen, not being able to say: "Yep, that's my code 100%". :-)

Yeah, I suppose using a GUI that isn't yours to put a demo together is somewhat analogous to using a GUI paint program that isn't yours, or GUI music program that isn't yours, etc..

mri: i always was (and still am) a fan of the opengl api in general, but when it comes to the use of complex materials and implementation of shaders, d3d is simply so much more comfortable (and compatible).
the bad point is that you can't expect all features being available with a default rendering context setup.
so i simply can't implement all the things i currently want as a simple demopaja plugin.
but maybe memon can help solving this problem :)

apart from that i totally agree on using things that have already been done.

I have use also demopaja but I wish to make demo same Haujobb and fabrash! How to do this?

I have use also demopaja but I wish to make demo same Haujobb and fabrash! How to do this?

Bjerte:

haujobb-demo-tutorial: press the "make object look big"-button in your editor-gui. Also enable the "reuse visu-dezine"-feature

farbrausch-demo-tutorial: subdivide your meshes and enable the flatshading-feature. also forget about pretending to have some effects.

on the other hand...
excess-demo-tutorial: repeat the same effect all through the demo, but change some minor parameters. stuff in some horrible textures made by one of the coders.

ohbytheway. in case someone takes this the wrong way; this is not intended as flaming any groups, just me being a bit drunk and unable to sleep.

You forgot 80's demo design: Make a sinus scroller and write several thousand lines of text.

thom, you forgot to mention the chrome fonts.

Using Demopaja can be lame, or can be cool. Depends how you're using it. Is using fmod.dll lame? Is using OpenGL lame?

I do not think it imperfect to release a demo using demopaja.
It is because it thinks it meaningful in understanding the outline in a series of structure that software can be used.
Of course, creating one's production from the start leads to a skill rise.
However, when producing a certainly good early thing, I think that it is the thing which also needs the skill which uses middleware like demopaja.
Although it may not be a good opinion for what creates demoengine from the start ...

Props to memon for a great tool. This whole "it must be pure c++ or asm" conversation is lame. Its like this,. Before in time all we had to clean our floors with was a toothbrush. Then someone invents the broom, and gets dezzed because its making the work a lot easyer, so you can focus on things youd rather want to do. It's a tool. nothing else. Theres no "make new demo" button you can press, that automatically makes a good demo for you. You still have to pour creativity and hard work into it, to get good results out of it. It's the same with trackers, softsynths etc.. It still takes talent to make it good.

Actually, I'm surprised nobody has made an 'art' demo maker with only one button.

Well there's a project for yall coders innit?