New platform needed - cellphone/mobile?
category: general [glöplog]
With this years nice cellphone releases on asm03 (I also belive there have been a few phone demos before?) maybe it would be good to have a platform for these?
Doing separate platforms for P800, different Nokias etc. would be overkill, but to collect all cellphone demos under one platform would be nice, instead of having to try to find them in wild/pocketpc or whatever they were added in.
I belive we will be seeing more demos on such devices in the future, as more and more cellphone comes with the possibility to run homebrew stuff.
Doing separate platforms for P800, different Nokias etc. would be overkill, but to collect all cellphone demos under one platform would be nice, instead of having to try to find them in wild/pocketpc or whatever they were added in.
I belive we will be seeing more demos on such devices in the future, as more and more cellphone comes with the possibility to run homebrew stuff.
Fully agree!
yep
Agreed. How about an XBox on while we're at it?
Hopefully analouge fixes this. The boring part mus't be to find all cellphone demos in all the other categories and put them in the right one. And too make one for the XBox aswell seems justified, doesn't it?
a separate xbox category is a waste - how about just a "console" category? "mobile phone" is also needed.
in what way is it a "waste" with an xbox category?
I'm strongly for an Xbox category. Of course there are only a few demos for this system so far, and most of them won't be spread because of legal stuff (yet nobody has managed to get anything sensible out of the thing without the MS XDK, and OpenXDK's VGA modes or Linux with devfb simply don't count, it's a shame to leave a GF3+ and three(!) powerful DSPs unused), but IMHO this will come. Xbox gamedev studios are already reverse engineering the whole thing (*waves towards a certain dutch*) and probably this information will leak and the scene will be able to do demos without using any M$ proprietary stuff, who knows ;)
Cellphone sounds good, too. Maybe a few more platforms as soon as smartphone standards evolved (Symbian/WinCE etc)
Cellphone sounds good, too. Maybe a few more platforms as soon as smartphone standards evolved (Symbian/WinCE etc)
maybe just 'mobile java'?
yeah, why limit the amount of platforms? More platforms will only make it easier to find prods for the platform of one's choice and thereby make pouet.net better!
sure, go and wave the finger at the dutch again... first we get fingered for eyesore colorschemes, now reverse engineering? :(
I have moblile phone!! How to have demo it?
I never actually read MS' Xbox-developer-license agreement or any document that covers their policy regarding these things in general, but I guess it's not illegal, as a consumer, to buy a modified Xbox and code for it using a leaked XDK? (<- Question #1)
On the other hand, us developers are not supposed to spill any information at all, as far as I know I couldn't even release a demo on that platform, from a legal perspective that is. Let alone releasing information about the hardware which you can't even discuss with the Xbox ATG. We recently had to get a bug in PIX fixed since it crashed constantly because it captured a list of commands in a particular order that would not occur when using Direct3D. They were *not* happy about that :)
But would it be illegal to release self-obtained information about nVidia's GPU, without mentioning the Xbox at all? (<- Question #2)
In order to replace the XTL (which is basically what has to be done), someone will have to reverse-engineer some system-related functionality, and create some alternative functionality to replace (or provide information about) Direct3D/Sound.
Oh well, I'm probably too dumb to answer these questions. I'll go read the license agreement and perhaps there's an idea to get things rolling. The Xbox is a mighty fine platform after all.
And yes, I am *against* whacking all consoles into a single category. That's too simple.
Mobile phones? Not sure. I'm not interested in platforms like those, at all, but I guess some people are and they seem to have the same rights, so why not give them a category?
On the other hand, us developers are not supposed to spill any information at all, as far as I know I couldn't even release a demo on that platform, from a legal perspective that is. Let alone releasing information about the hardware which you can't even discuss with the Xbox ATG. We recently had to get a bug in PIX fixed since it crashed constantly because it captured a list of commands in a particular order that would not occur when using Direct3D. They were *not* happy about that :)
But would it be illegal to release self-obtained information about nVidia's GPU, without mentioning the Xbox at all? (<- Question #2)
In order to replace the XTL (which is basically what has to be done), someone will have to reverse-engineer some system-related functionality, and create some alternative functionality to replace (or provide information about) Direct3D/Sound.
Oh well, I'm probably too dumb to answer these questions. I'll go read the license agreement and perhaps there's an idea to get things rolling. The Xbox is a mighty fine platform after all.
And yes, I am *against* whacking all consoles into a single category. That's too simple.
Mobile phones? Not sure. I'm not interested in platforms like those, at all, but I guess some people are and they seem to have the same rights, so why not give them a category?
plek: I don't think it's illegal to code with a leaked XDK, but it certainly is illegal to spread the demo then... at least you're distributing part of the XDK binaries without permission.
OTOH, using warez copies of VC++ are the same thing if you accidentally link statically to the libc, so what.
I think reverse engineering the NVIDIA GPU and spreading information about it should be legal... if you don't obtain that information by looking into the Xbox d3d lib. Disassembling the Detonator drivers, testing it on Xbox and then releasing a nifty text file should work ;))
In any case, I'm quite sad that we two seem out of the game as long as we want to keep our jobs *g*
OTOH, using warez copies of VC++ are the same thing if you accidentally link statically to the libc, so what.
I think reverse engineering the NVIDIA GPU and spreading information about it should be legal... if you don't obtain that information by looking into the Xbox d3d lib. Disassembling the Detonator drivers, testing it on Xbox and then releasing a nifty text file should work ;))
In any case, I'm quite sad that we two seem out of the game as long as we want to keep our jobs *g*
ah ofcourse, yes, the distribution trick. besides the legal thing i must admit that it also feels quite funky to 'release' information obtained at work (in order to serve commercial purposes).
lai: i think it's a waste because there -are- no xbox demos yet. make it a "console"-category and stick 'em all in there - after all, there are many more playstation(2)-demos out there than there are xbox-demos. but by all means; hammer analogue with 92843 category-suggestions, i'm sure -that- won't clutter up pouet at aaaall. :)
gloom: i think there a few xbox demos already in pouet. there was one at bp and at asm i think, and a old "saggy" cracktro too i think.
personally i don't think it is so cluttered up or whatever except in the dropdown list. as of now i counted 37 platforms so we haven't *quite* reached 90210 or whatever yet :)
maybe if there was a console-category and then subcategories or something with xbox and snes etc.
and this could be on amiga, pc and everything else the same way.
i remember this has been suggested before too.
well, wtf i dunno, it's all up to analogue...
personally i don't think it is so cluttered up or whatever except in the dropdown list. as of now i counted 37 platforms so we haven't *quite* reached 90210 or whatever yet :)
maybe if there was a console-category and then subcategories or something with xbox and snes etc.
and this could be on amiga, pc and everything else the same way.
i remember this has been suggested before too.
well, wtf i dunno, it's all up to analogue...
a console category is total bullshit. there are so different consoles with different power...
how can you stick gameboy, snes, nintendo64 and xbox into one category?!
how can you stick gameboy, snes, nintendo64 and xbox into one category?!
Hey dipswitch, isn't this exactly what the evoke console compo will be doing? ;)
mizc: I think something like drumroll.wav is appropiate here :)
mizc, a compo is one thing, a demo database is another...=)
see ya at evoke.
see ya at evoke.
dip: exactly.
it*could* be an idea to group them by generation, allthough it is most certainly true that even within generations power-discrepancies are sometimes quite large (let's say gcube vs. xbox for example).
it*could* be an idea to group them by generation, allthough it is most certainly true that even within generations power-discrepancies are sometimes quite large (let's say gcube vs. xbox for example).
plek, well, it could make sense to group them by bit count, like "8-bit consoles", "16-bit consoles" and so on...
but i'm quite confortable with the system we have now and see no needs to change it.
but i'm quite confortable with the system we have now and see no needs to change it.
Btw. anyone ever concerned to develop for Mophun phone platform? I have the impression that from all available cellphone .api's this to be the most promising. Check www.mophun.com . The DRM sucks though. . .
Mophun is quiet cool, but current platform just have 60kb of heap available, and max size for code is also something around 60kb.. Btw it's quiet slow, compared to brew, but still faster than java!
