pouët.net

tmb: afte this soap opera im considering changing it to do so actually.

scamp, drud, ayatollah: one soap opera a day is enough, no?

sorry, i have to admit that i dislike that too.

I dont really know what soap opera you are refering to...I just dislike people like scamp who give shit to the people who happen to be in the scene for a while and helped him get where he is right now..

ps: how about just ignoring all this? much better approach imho.

ps: I'm not in soap opera mood today, no worries ;)

ayatollah: What the above do you object to?

Calling people ghettosceners that have fun producing stuff (and actually releasing them at YOUR party aswell) is just not right.. Most the the Standards you are talking about are standards, that people can not achieve if they dont work in the field like that or are unemployed..

To me what you are saying is that basically everybody who was in the scene back then (the less mature days) and cares to do stuff these days needs to be on the top standard and play by your rules...Well I am not sure but I am 34 years old and I dont really care about new standards.the scene was a big part of my youth that I enjoy re-living twice a year at parties like yours or evoke.. I go there for the Friends I have (people I have known for more than 15 years now)... and what we (I am speaking for TRSI here) wanted to do is show the people around that a) we still care eventhough we all have good jobs, families etc. and b) show to other friends (the 10-20 people that actually are in the scene since these days) that we meet at the party we release the demo...

For us its the fun and if you think these "ghetto" productions that we do, should be banned, make a QC on the demos you show at your party..

scamp: i've sent you a mail, instead of replying here..

Ayatollah: I'm very happy that there are lots of people from the past still active in the scene, hey, I'm one of those old farts, too. I'm also happy that from time to time, people who have retired from the scene in the 90ies try to get back in again, seeing the value of what great community they've left behind.

But you just have to face it: Compared to what fuzz many of those "oldschoolers" create, their contributions to the scene as a whole are rather thin. How comes that for many of those who have returned, the first (and often only) thing to produce inside the scene are WARS?

What's worse, even newcomers are drawn into that mud, and given a completely false impression of the scene. I'm quite confident a bunch of the young folks that joined those wannabe-oldschoolgroups in recent times aren't really aware what the active scene thinks of them once they introduce themselves as members of such a group.

Again: A few of the "oldschoolers" I've met in the recent past did the right thing: Their first action was to visit one of todays demoparties, getting into contact with todays active sceners. This appears to have helped them to get over the feeling they have to fight for their ego behind their keyboard in scene fora and IRC channels etc. That's the right thing to do IMHO. I guess the best think an oldschooler who wishes to become active again is NOT to join an oldschool group.

Or, to put it another way: As soon as you join any of the groups mentioned above, no matter what your intentions are: You will be part of endless mudfights and silly groupwars, drawing away your attention of what really counts.

That's why I say: It's a good idea to stay clear of trsi/tristar/scoopex/s!p/etc if you wish to achieve something in the scene instead of wasting your time and ending up in frustration.

This doesn't imply that I don't respect the real former members and their releases of those groups, I'm friends with many ex-members of those groups - but most have moved on to new groups that focus on things that really count again.

Ähm...Hallo?

I thought TRSI released the first ever Xbox360 demo at Breakpoint?

scamp: you're still insulting the majority of active members of those groups.. even if it is your honest opinion, some of the active folks in those groups are not in it for old glory and mud throwing.

and i think we do also our little part. scamp you should to know that the trouble makers left 14 months ago the group, since this we´ve no further problems there, and our original formers are also inside the group. i won´t comment or talk for the other named groups.

most important is that we should not waste time here to talk where is hot and where is not. and i hope you will contact stingray, he can tell you more and it will change for sure your point of view about "what produces trouble"...

gargaj: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=6977

gargaj: And that changes my point how? If someone mentions any of those group names, the first thing I think of today isn't some great release, but mudfights and silly wars. To me, those group names are spoiled, some more, some less.

ps: I'm sorry if I'm insulting people. Maybe those who are not in for mud throwing finally should take notice on what their group names are received as. Seriously, how many "we are dead / we have kicked all our members / we aren't dead anymore / we have split up and now are two groups / xy is not the real group, we are" cycles do these groups need until they notice it's getting silly?

(And when it comes to the various great releases members of some of those groups have done recently, I highly prefer to associate those with the individual members. How on earth does "a S!P release" for example identify a group? It could refer to a whole bunch of different groups of people who might never have heard of each other, or be in war right now...)

druid: Thx, replied to by mail.
ami: Talked to stingray on IRC, we mostly agree as it appears.

Obviously it has caused some fuzz by some that my post appeared as I've defended daxx, who's been into kindergarden fights since he rejoined the scene. My intention was to use him as an example for someone who might have been a useful re-addition to the scene *IF* he would have gotten into personal contact with todays active sceners who'd have integrated him into their group, teaching him how things work these days, telling him "shut up, pixel/track for our demo instead of fighting with other 'oldschoolers'" etc.

ps: true, although that's a port, not a 100% pure console demo.

Okay, for some reason that chat log makes it look like I'm somehow involved in the kindergarden fights that seem to be going on here.

I (and others) kicked am-fm and daxx from #demo.ger quite a few times after the channel regulars had collectively decided that we don't want them there - not because of stupid fights (whatever they may be about), but simply because they were annoying and behaved like assholes.

A lot of my kicking just happened to end up in the log here.

Eh, just wanted to get that off my chest. Thank you for your attention.

scamp, your attack on trsi is nowadays unjustified (while it would be correct perhaps 3 years ago), and i totally understand that ayatollah is offended by your post. the trsi console bunch around ayatollah is actually PRODUCING stuff, instead of laming around.

This whole matter is totally hilarious! Please continue this absolutely inane banter! :D

Honestly iam a bit disappointed that TRSi ( specially c64 and console section ) get thrown in this bunch of childish wars ...

I like to work with these guys too, and we did x360 and psp demos,
yes we claim then a bit oldschool in effects ... right.

But for me oldschool is not to talk shit and make Sinusscroller starfield bumping logo intros really ..

So well i would say in conclusion ... compared to alot of people, who just talk "look iam oldschool" , i can say that trsi is still producing some things. Even when they might not reach top level ...

And because we enjoy to party we are not able to vote for ourselves anymore because we might be a bit drunk .

And that a step backward is not always bad, see the "Rebellion" musicdisk, which was also designed, planned and all gfx made by a "Ghettoscener" which was me ... and we got more than 1 thumb up for it ...

Thanks for your time ...

dip: The fact that TRSI has active members/sections doesn't change the slightest bit that they are continuously part of silly "we split up / we merged"-fights. http://www.pouet.net/search.php?what=trsi&type=bbs (which includes the glorious "DEViANCE isnt death!!" thread). I'm sorry, but if someone mentions TRSI when I'm around, I don't think of releases, but of childish mudfights. Maybe to a lesser extend than with S!P and Scoopex (which remind me of tmb/rebook, the one true master of necrophilia when it comes to recycling old group names), but still, I have a hard time to think of TRSI as a "group".

If different bunches of people are fighting about once-famous group names, I just can't take anyone of that group seriously anymore, no matter who started what and who's right on what. The solution to all those troubles would be at hand: The active sceners should create a new group with a new name, problem solved. It's as easy as that. As a bonus releases by these new formations would get better rankings from the scene, because there would be no "This group used to be elite in the 90ies, why does this group today release beginner-level productions?" thoughts. A pure win-win, if you ask me.

Conclusion: All those groups should be "death", problem solved, everyone happy.

h2o: Please don't take the said things personally. You are HIGHLY respected as a scener by me for what you done inside and for the scene since ages. My rants are about fights about groupnames (which I find extremely silly and a waste of energy), not about the respect towards individuals inside the scene.

When I think of S!P I think of MiRRoRMaN and the brilliant case of fuckup he was.

I miss him.. :(

you might want to start your rants with exactly that phrase then, to avoid some future ethnic scene riots[tm]. :)