pouët.net

I was viewing images from electronic graphicians in various sites I just discovered and I was just simply stunned! Real masterpieces, similar to them I don't remember to have seen in the demoscene. I don't remember to have ever seen such beautifull and perfect graphics before, even if I used to browse gfx-zone galleries. Am I perhaps wrong or prejudged? I don't know,.. but scene graphics seemed preety simplier works to me, in comparison to some of the artworks found in art sites, having nothing to do with the demoscene. What do you think?

One site I was browsing recently is http://gallery.cgtalk.com/ and there was another one with top/favorite of submissions, the first one where I made the above thoughts what I am writting above after viewing some pictures.. (do you remember which was that?)

For example, one of my favorites:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=54406

I don't remember to have seen something so beautifull and higly detail done in Photoshop in the demoscene..

Correct me if I am wrong, but are these individual electronic artists doing much better works than the top graphicians of the demoscene? Are they aware of the demoscene btw?

I'd like to hear comments, because this is puzzling me. To suddenly discover these sites and get into wondering all these whole things, getting in love with these wonderfull images and forgetting what the scene has showed to me..

The "scene" I think is way too segragated to incorporate a wide range of different talents and blend them all into teams to make incredible prodZ. It really takes more than just a good programmer, or 3D artist to make anything worth being noted. Good scene prods always were about great teams.

33

a lot demoscene gfx is a LOT better than the one you posted here, Optimus. Both from a technical and from an artistic point of view.

You wish...

The magic word... AMIGA

Yeah!
Your favorite picture is true demoscene art. There are huskies, woman. Well dolphins, dragons and spaceships are missing. And where's the viking warrior?
Well it reminds me redneck's tshirt with trucks, native and bald eagle :)

Finding a place to put illustrations in nowadays demos is quiet hard i think... Its use has to be justificated (mostly by the overall design of the demo). In the old days, it was a technical challenge to put a fullscreen hires picture in a demo. And design wasn't that important (not as now imo).

Ah and most (not all) of the conceptart/cgtalk/eatpoo dudes are professional. Afaik demomaking is not a "professional" activity. The cases where people get paid to make demos are rare :)

So, to summarize. Today's scene "graphics" is just plain crap. Beginners' Photoshop-fingerpaints, disgusting scans, etc. Even the very best of these can't touch the real scene art that was around till, hm, let's say 1997. Pixel art, that is.

Let me give you some names: Fairfax, Milkshake, J.O.E., Uno, Made, Fade One, Danny, Rendall, Beast, Rack, Unreal, Destop, Bridgeclaw... They're all Amiga graphicians, look for their works.

Ah, and one more thing:

PHOTOSHOP IS NOT ART

everyone except www.goodbrush.com sucks.
and pixel art stinks.

amen :D

kusma: which for example?

Yes,. only oldschool pixel graphics are the original ones which demoscene can show me and nothing else, because I hadn't visited art sites at the old times to now what individuals can do in that. I am really wondering though, these people who spend so much time in one picture, what they could do in pixel art. But their photoshop art still looks really amazing in comparison..

I have thought myself some reasons. Of course that many of the people there might be professionals while the demoscene is a bunch of nerds who create things on their computers just for fun. (Ok,. some others because they want to get some attention, or because it's a way of escape from their miserable lifes or a kind of expression,. and there are many other weird reasons anyways)

Also, it's a matter of diferrent thinking. That dudes, might take a lot of hard work (even months) to perfect just one screen and the community they beelong are more close and exclussively focused in drawing, while the demoscene is more wide (code, drawing, tracking, design, laming). And the average scener,a scene graphician for example, logs in the net everyday to spend his time on irc or write in sites like pouet, download the newer demo releases and watch them. He has a real life too, things might be going not very well with him/her, having problems with him/herself, beeing bored of life or inactive sometimes. Usually, he/she is working on some graphics, few days before the deadline in order to support a demoparty and "save" the scene. He/she is asked also to do various graphics for many productions or groups and has to do them fast. Many times, he/she might be feeling that work pointless and having thought to quit the scene..

The scene also is not so strict these days and tolerant to newbies and mediocre releases, which is good from one side because we do want to be nice with each other and feel like a family. The base of the scene is social perhaps. We also attend demoparties where we meet each other and just booze (ok, some are creative, but it's not the point working for releasing something right at the party). And we are not so perfectionists afteralls, neither we are working for a job inside the demoscene but because we do what we like. Why should we actually? The other guys might be working and they are doing it perfect in a small speciality (beeing computer graphics), which is just one part of the wide talented demoscene, and they might have a stronger or diferrent reason too.

I don't except from the sceners doing such impressive work, neither should I perhaps. I was perfectionist oneday, but didn't started doing nothing. I had very weird reasons that brought me inside the demoscene, but they had to change and I will be resting now and take care of my lame life, so I really don't know when or if I will achieve my perfectionist plans ever and if there is a reason to actually do that inside the demoscene which is supposed to be a hobby (but it's more than this for many of the people and me of course). I am, especially today one person who spends the time on irc or pouet and can't expect any impressive activity from me now, at least in my current state, impossible to do something really perfect. So, how could I except this from others? But the feeling remains. The one that these pictures have given me, while beeing not demoscene graphics. And the final feeling was bittersweet, discovering that it's not only the demoscene out there doing beautifull things, but some might look even a lot of better. I am a fan of demoscene but not a fanatic to say "demoscene art is way above these pictures", except if it's really so and I overlooked..

I think Mooz has a point when he says a lot of these artists are professionals. Graphic art is their livelihood; they paint 5-7 days a week, get professional advice, tips and what's more, they have access to technology sceners can only dream of.

If you look at some of the work of ex-sceners turned professional, you'll see their graphics are a lot more advanced than they were whilst one the scene.

Also, a lot of these non-scene artists don't limit themselves. Sometimes they use 3d programs, filters, scanned textures etc, whereas a lot of scene artists stick to the "rules" of the scene or scene competitions - i.e. no scanning, no 3d in 2d competitions etc.

Besides, I disagree. I've seen 8bit scene art that looks better than a lot of the gfx on those links.

For example:

Many of my english here sucks, so it might be a bit incomprehensible. I have just found out, that I could write interesting articles for hugi or pain but it will be really impossible to write one now, I am really inside exams in few days and I haven't studied nothing ;P

Hmm,. I can't see it clearly. Ok,. demoscene graphics have much more fantasy, another point. Depends on what do you see as art..

I really don't know though, why I feel this way about the scene versus the real life graphics now. Is it true or a prejudgice?

demoscene:

too many copycats and scanners and not enough real artists

http://tpolm.com/fthr

but yeah, he's a professional anyway ;)

as Mooz said, graphics in the demoscene seems to be totally immature stuff that doesn't bring anything to the table. Now that I think of it demoscene music too. and what about the code?

I think there's been a general decline in the amount of 2D artwork shown in contemporary demos. A shame really, as I think there's still room for such images.

To me the weak spot for the scene has always been music.

And in regards to that picture Optimus linked. Skillful, yes. Attractive or interesting, no.

so it's the return of the amateur work vs. professionnal work thread?

Well, it's more about motivation i think.

I don't think most of the works on that site are so much better than some of the scene artists, most of them are the same old stuff with dragons and space ships, perhaps they are higher quality cause they spend more time or have better hardware or whatever, but as a picture few of them are notably good.

another thing, scene works are generally lower res to fit in the screen (or in the compo file size limits), and the aspect is stuck at 4:3 unless you want borders...

Take a look at some of made's pictures (www.ma4e.com) or http://www.wade.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tutorial1.htm for a great pic by wade or look at some of visualize's work on gfxzome...

you can't expect sceners to devote months of work on really high quality/high res works that won't be visible in a demo, but still, the quality of some of the best is up there with the best on cgtalk imo

What makes amiga so 'professional' and pc so 'amateur'? Amiga is just a computer which was famous before pc's.

After all, all pictures consists of pixels, only amount of colors may be between 8bpp and 32bpp. Maybe 'amiga pics' looks different cuz they have only 16bit colours, which forces the artist choose gradient colours more carefully.

For me, it's same is it pixel graphics or brushed, finally I just like the output in visually and phsycologicaly.

http://www.eatpoo.com - pics needs soul :)

you don't undestand.. the amiga mouse is sooo much better. And amiga's pixels have a vintage grain that is so much warmer than pc's cold pixels.

Hmm, wonder why unssi hasn't commented on this yet...